Biodiesel and fuel lines

Green1 · Post by **Green1** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:26 pm

so... I want to try biodiesel, however I've heard that if you have rubber fuel lines the biodiesel will disolve them... so... what material are the fuel lines in a 1991 Delica? and where can one order replacments if they are the wrong material?

Post by **BCDelica** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:03 pm

Howdy,

I wish could help you with biodiesel and fuel lines, though I have heard improperly processed bio is more corrosive in the components. I do know with running waste veggie oil that in less then two months the fatty acids dissolved the paint inside the Delica's back tank. Also in February I replaced all the original fuel lines still in place, there was considerable deterioration, where as the newer lines still look fine. You can buy fuel lines by the foot in different sizes at auto part stores.

There is plenty of information on the damaged caused by improperly made and washed biodiesel. The second reason I didn't go that way. I have seen a older Toyota F60 with a rotted out exhaust manifold from using unwashed backyard biodiesel for less then six months!

Kev

Green1 · Post by **Green1** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:41 am

interesting... my father is running "unwashed" biodiesel in his vw passat right now, however he claims that by letting it settle for longer (ie a month or so) the washing is unnecessary...

so far however I have not simply been taking his word for things as I would rather do things "right" after spending this much effort to aquire a specialized vehicle!

(I do have to ask though, you are running WVO... but don't want to run unwashed bio, aren't you ending up with the same problems (albeit a bit cheaper...))

Post by **BCDelica** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:20 pm

Every thing I have read says that washing the biodiesel is a necessary step, to reduce the corrosiveness - especially in the exhaust gases. With WVO the fatty acids just work as different kind of solvent, just like in the 70's when they started putting ethanol or methanol in gas and it ate up fine lines and gas tank coatings. As long as it, WVO, dewater enough there should be little corrosive problems.

As for letting biodiesel settle it get clear, but I thought unless it's chemically stable (additive's) it can degrade from bacteria.

I decided to KISS (keep it simple stupid) with the veggie thing, trying to do it properly and time will tell what it's doing inside my engine. I researched it some and ask lots of questions, I'd like to find out I'm doing something wrong sooner then later. But for now I'll just go on saving money.

mitch · Post by **mitch** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:24 pm

Hey Kev,

Still working on getting ready too run WVO once it warms up a bit. Do you have any more info on fuel lines.. Size? cost? (the viton stuff seems expensive and hard to find) how many feet did you need? do you use them same line from your WVO tank?

Also do you add any antibacterial additive to your fuel while storing it? what if anything do you use as a filter before you put your veg oil into your tank.

Everything all still good with your system? Would you be interested in ordering one of these spare engine/trannys mentioned under "general disscussion" ??? you having 2 vans might be money well spent?

Mitch

Still hoping to meet up sometime and check out your system..

biozach · Post by **biozach** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:44 pm

I'd also like to know if anyone has info on changing the fuel lines to Viton or the like. Someone with some info, please post. Thanks

Phatburner · Post by **Phatburner** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:13 am

Just checking the archives I'd like to comment on the discussion. Unwashed biodiesel is a big no no. Yes you will hear about people who do that but consider that a diesel engine should give you half a meelion km before needing serious maintenance and then decide if someone's anecdotal 10,000 km is evidence of much? Unwashed biodiesel has some excess catalyst in it ( either NaOH or KOH) which will eat into some metals and some excess methanol from the process which will also eat things up pretty good over time. Methanol and catalyst together are a fairly potent combination especially on aluminum since methanol will remove the native oxide and the caustic will then etch the exposed metal. Biodiesel needs to be dried after washing as water in diesel injectors will flash to superheated steam and crack injector tips off. Not nice. Also water in fuel will lead to corrosion in your injector pump which is fairly dear. Same goes for watery WVO or SVO. Talking with local mennonite farmers who run diesel electric generators 24/7 they expect to get 20,000 hours on an engine or more and have had problems with IP's and tips from watery WVO. Some plastics and rubbers are not compatible with BD and VO. Most post 90's cars do not use these materials. Best way to be sure is take a small peice of the plastic or rubber in question and submerge it in a small bottle of B100 and see if it swells and softens. I have not had any such problems with my 2000 Golf. BD can loosen deposits from crappy petroleum diesel (PD) in initial stages of use and this stuff can clog your fuel filter. Have a spare and tools on hand in the vehicle (and a headlamp) for the possibility you need to change it on the fly. This has not happened to me although my car had 225,000 km when I got it. perhaps canadian diesel is cleaner than US where the majority of this info came from and my car didn't have the buildup? The spare filter sits in the back of the car and no doubt I will have to change it next time I drive after such flagrant tempting of fate! lol

Drivegan!

Joe

Green1 · Post by **Green1** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:44 pm

my father has been running "unwashed" bio diesel for a while now and I constantly question it...
You claim that the problem from unwashed bio is a result of excess catalyst and methanol, he claims that in lieu of washing it you can let it settle to get rid of these... does this sound plausible? or is he more likely killing his engine (albeit slowly)?

mitch · Post by **mitch** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:56 pm

Yeah Phatburner, sweet information... and good plug for your bio diesel workshop.. cause those are all things that im alittle paranoid about.

keep me posted on how thats coming along.

Mitch

Phatburner · Post by **Phatburner** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:46 pm

Hi Green1;

You might want to tell father that catalyst and methanol will not settle out of his fuel. I'll bet he doesn't do any quality tests either, ahem...it aint broke till it breaks right? Here's a link to some of the best information you will find.

http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodies ... ewash.html

Now some of it is a little old now. Careful biodieselers these days avoid bubble washing and opt for stir or pump washing since it has less potential to oxidize fuel than bubblewashing used to. Some stubborn types still refuse to wash because they find they have problems with washing. They have no idea what they are putting in their tanks now do they? If you have trouble washing it is a given your fuel has a problem either it is not fully reacted, or it is contaminated with glycerin, or both. Not a good scene, but you would never know it without testing. A simple test, crude but the first hurdle in making quality fuel; take some of papas hooch and put it in a clean pop bottle with an equal quantity of clean tap water. Shake vigorously for ten seconds and then let it stand. It should start to separate quickly within minutes typically. If it doesn't separate cleanly within a half hour you've got crappy fuel. If it does separate you MIGHT have good fuel but there's another test to do to prove that which involves disolving a small amount of biodiesel in a large amount of methanol and then any unreacted tri or di-glycerides will precipitate out. Check the links on this post and here's another about quality testing.

http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodies ... ml#quality

Drivegan!

Green1 · Post by **Green1** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:48 pm

we would prefer to make our own bio-diesel, unfortunately though it is illegal in a residential neighbourhood in the city of calgary to have enough methanol on hand to make more than a verry small amount of biodiesel at a time, which makes the whole prospect rather awkward... my father has been looking for someone with the right zoning to work with to do this, but so far no luck...