Vibration in the front end. Hubs, bearings, CV joints?

[Erebus]

I'm hoping that someone can offer some insight into a problem I'm having with my L300 Delica's front end. I'm getting a vibration that Kirkham Automotive and I have not figured out. Hopefully a Deli forum member can help. Jesse, this should be right up your alley!

First some background. A few years ago I replaced the front auto hubs with manual Superwinch ones. Last summer I had the front driveshaft balanced, and the u-joints replaced. Then in September, while driving across a field, I hit a big rock. Besides severely denting both fuel tanks and the transmission oil pan, it hit the front drive shaft near the transfer case. The hubs were locked, but I believe I had the transfer case in 2WD

I then had a vibration at speeds over 80 km/h when the hubs were locked, but none when unlocked.

So, besides replacing the fuel tanks and transmission oil pan, I had the driveline shop check the driveshaft, since there was a definite scratch in it. There was a very slight bend that they fixed. Although the vibration was reduced, it was still there.

I then did some trail-and-error. I found that if I put the transfer case in 4WD, but left the hubs unlocked, there was no vibration. Hubs locked, 2WD or 4WD, vibration.

More investigation by Kirkham revealed worn upper ball joints. They have been replaced, but I still have the vibration, but reduced again from what it was.

Given that having the transfer case in 4WD but with the hubs still unlocked doesn't cause vibration, it seems to me that the problem can't be in the transfer case, drive shaft, differential, or half-shafts, but must be in the front wheel bearings, locking hubs, or CV joints. But that's just my opinion.

I should also mention that we have found that when everything is in 2WD, the front drive half-shafts move about 1/2" in and out. Is that normal? And before anyone asks, the tires have been rotated and balanced with no change to the vibration.


So, to recap:
2WD, hubs unlocked, no vibration above 80 km/h
4WD, hubs unlocked, no vibration above 80 km/h

2WD, hubs locked, vibration above 80 km/h
4WD, hubs locked, vibration above 80 km/h

Any ideas?

[jessef]

You won't get any driveline vibration at the wheels with the hubs unlocked.

Lock the hubs and anything from the front output shaft on the tcase up to the CV shafts can cause vibration.

Can cause your symptoms
- worn or damaged front output shaft transfer case/yoke
- backlash pinion gear front diff
- worn ujoints on front driveshaft
- worn CV's

My guess is when you hammered on your front driveshaft, it pulled or pushed on the yoke (transfer case side) and pinion gear (front diff side) and there's slop there causing the driveline vibration when you lock the hubs.

[Luna-Sea]

Hey,
Maybe try swapping out the front drive shaft with one that
has not been bashed and bent back?
Relatively cheap and easy place to start anyway.

With the hubs unlocked and the 4wD engaged it
Will not be fussing as much because there is no load on it.
I would think your wheel bearings would moan in 2wd
Or 4wd if they were compromised.
Bit of a puzzle for sure.

Good Luck

[thedjjack]

Pull the driveshaft and lock the hubs and go for a drive and then report....

That should help pin point it...Mark the driveshaft when you pull it...try putting it in at 180 degrees

[L300Foca]

Your front driveshaft is too short (mybe its not original). That was in my case. I made new one and no vibrations any more!

[Erebus]

Pull the driveshaft and lock the hubs and go for a drive and then report....

That should help pin point it...Mark the driveshaft when you pull it...try putting it in at 180 degrees

Can't drive with it pulled, it has a slip yoke at the transfer case, you would lose the oil in the TC. Hmm 180 is a possibility, although I don't know if they marked it when it was removed, and reinstalled, so that might have happened already.

[Erebus]

Something I forgot to mention in my original post ... when I put in the manual hubs, I noticed that in cold weather, let's say below -5, that first thing in the morning for the first few hundred metres the Wheel Lock light would come on, then flicker a few times and go off. I figured it was normal due to cold grease in the wheel bearings causing enough drag to turn the driveshaft a little. Only when everything was completely cold soaked -- say parked for more than 5 hours -- would it happen. After the first drive from cold, it would stay off. No big deal.

But since the "incident" I've noticed that it happens at warmer temperatures -- up to +5 -- and lasts longer. At -15, it would stay on for 1-2 km. And it seems to be getting worse.

I should mention that the vibration I'm getting isn't really through the steering wheel, it is more that the whole vehicle shakes or trembles.

With the hubs unlocked and the 4wD engaged it
Will not be fussing as much because there is no load on it.
I would think your wheel bearings would moan in 2wd
Or 4wd if they were compromised.

Ya, I wouldn't see the bearings caring that much whether the driveshaft is connected or not.

Your front driveshaft is too short

It is still the same driveshaft it was before. The U-joints were replaced before the "incident", not after, so it can't be that. And with a slip yoke, I can't really see how it could be too short. Nore are there any spare L300 driveshafts in the Calgary area.

My guess is when you hammered on your front driveshaft, it pulled or pushed on the yoke (transfer case side) and pinion gear (front diff side) and there's slop there causing the driveline vibration when you lock the hubs.

The hit from the rock was about 6" from the rear end of the driveshaft. That seems the most plausible, and I would guess the transfer case end given where it hit, but then why would it matter which end of the system is being driven? I would expect it to vibrate any time the driveshaft is turning, regardless if it is turned from the hub ends or from the transfer case end.

Kirkham's mechanic didn't think it was likely the yoke was damaged, that it is pretty tough. But that was before the driveshaft was straightened and checked. However, now they are pretty much stumped. I'm tempted to have the wheel bearings serviced (they are two years old) and see if that makes any difference, or if they see anything in there.

Keep the ideas coming.

[thedjjack]

Pull the driveshaft and lock the hubs and go for a drive and then report....

That should help pin point it...Mark the driveshaft when you pull it...try putting it in at 180 degrees

Can't drive with it pulled, it has a slip yoke at the transfer case, you would lose the oil in the TC. Hmm 180 is a possibility, although I don't know if they marked it when it was removed, and reinstalled, so that might have happened already.

Pull the front drive shaft off the front and tie it up with wire (to keep the slip yoke in). Leave it in 2wd and go for a drive with the hubs locked.

[Erebus]

Today I took it in for a wheel alignment after having replaced the upper ball joints. The alignment place said there was too much slack in the front wheel bearings to be able to properly align the vehicle. So I'll get the wheel bearings serviced, then we'll see if the problem is gone.

I'll report back next week.

Thanks!

[jessef]

if it was the wheel bearings, it would be vibrating all the time since the bearings have no bearing (no pun intended) on the axles/driveline. It will be vibrating at the hubs with or without a drive axle in them.

if they are taking them apart/repacking the hubs, may as well toss in new wheel bearings. They are cheap and available at your local 7-11.

SKF# BR50 both sides with races. About $12 each

[feltspar]

I am also having a similar problem as the original post, except a bit different scenario. The vibration starts after 80km but it only happens after I take it out of 4x4. If I stop, and turn the engine off for a few minutes then it goes away sometimes. I have also tried stopping putting it in reverse and then drive and turning the engine off, not sure if that is making a difference.

I did recently attempt to have an alignment and they said that the front bearings have play and the right inner tie rod end has excessive movement.

Any thoughts would be of assistance, thanks. :)

[Erebus]

Took it to Kirkham, there is nothing wrong with the wheel bearings. Garrett thought they looked fine, so he had both Mark and Brent look at them. They all agreed that the bearings and hubs are fine.

Garrett had marked the driveshaft before removal in Dec., but the driveline place painted the shaft, so he couldn't tell if he put it back the same way.

He took it for a road test after the bearing check, and can also feel the vibration. But we turned the driveshaft 180 just because it is quick and easy.

Now after that work, it still vibrates, but not as bad as before (I think). I can feel a difference going from transfer case engaged/hubs unlocked into 2WD at speed.

Told the tire shop I wasn't happy spending money to "fix" bearings that didn't need fixing. This time will be there when alignment is to be done, so will be interesting to see what the story is this time.

[rezdiver]

if it was the wheel bearings, it would be vibrating all the time since the bearings have no bearing (no pun intended) on the axles/driveline. It will be vibrating at the hubs with or without a drive axle in them.

if they are taking them apart/repacking the hubs, may as well toss in new wheel bearings. They are cheap and available at your local 7-11.

SKF# BR50 both sides with races. About $12 each

i disagree, bearing vibration is more noticable at higher speeds. a lot of times very hard to diagnose at low speeds or up on jacks.

[jessef]

i disagree, bearing vibration is more noticable at higher speeds. a lot of times very hard to diagnose at low speeds or up on jacks.

Of course it's more noticeable at higher speeds. That's what I said. I think you did a typo ?

My bearing 101 was referencing Erebus's specific vibration issue (over 80km/h) as he was having no vibration over 80km/h with the hubs unlocked vs vibration over 80km/h locked.

I said that it's not a bearing problem otherwise the vibration would be constant hubs locked or not. That ruled out bearings before they even looked at them.

Erebus, has anyone checked the backlash on your front diff as per above the the ujoints/output shaftCV's?

[rezdiver]

read it out of context, you are correct.