Sudden loss of power.

Does your Mitsubishi L300 make a strange noise? Need wheel alignment specs?
Jedidiahwiebe
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Sudden loss of power.

Post by Jedidiahwiebe »

Hey Everyone, I just can't figure out what happened. My van just wouldn't run right this morning. Feels like a fuel supply issue, but changed the diesel fuel filter, and no improvement. The only symptom that i've noticed so far is loss of power. Can't make it up to highway speed, and most of the time barely get it above 2k rpm. Going up a hill i was doing 20km/hr. No smoke, no weird sounds. Idles fine, starts fine, to my untrained ear the turbo even sounds normal. I can get 'er up to speed on the flat (eventually) by shifting up into a higher than normal gear. (still seem to have low end power.) Seems like the rpms are governed. It's feeling very much like a clogged fuel filter. But it's not quite the same - it doesn't work good for the first bit after being turned off for a while like a blocked filter would.
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Re: Sudden loss of power.

Post by Overlanderjay »

Sounds like a failing injector/fuel pump
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Jedidiahwiebe
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Re: Sudden loss of power.

Post by Jedidiahwiebe »

What fails on the IP?
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Re: Sudden loss of power.

Post by Growlerbearnz »

Check the little vacuum tube that goes from the turbo to the top of the IP. If it's split or come off, the IP won't inject extra fuel when the turbo spools up. You may need to remove the driver's seat and engine cover to check the turbo end of the tube. If the tube is in place and all looks good, then it might be a seized boost pin or split diaphragm. Boost pins seize all the time on Land Rovers, but not so much on our engines, but it's worth checking and an easy fix. Take a look a this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvnQEIcrgWs

Injector pumps are usually pretty reliable. The first sign that they're getting tired is usually a fuel leak. A thoroughly worn-out pump will have irregular timing (more rattly engine) and inject less fuel than it should (loss of power) but those things should accumulate very slowly.
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Re: Sudden loss of power.

Post by Jedidiahwiebe »

Thanks, will check that after lunch! I was wondering. Do the L300 injector pumps have an internal screen? I've been running WVO for a good 50 thousand km now. Natrually it's good clean oil, but I know that crap always creates more sediment after a while of sitting even if you filtered it to 1 micron. Is there a screen inside the IP that could have become clogged? And is it accessible? Thanks!
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Re: Sudden loss of power.

Post by Jedidiahwiebe »

Hey, so the little line/tube from the IP to the turbo does not seem to be the problem. I replaced it and checked the clamps. Did not fix the problem. Also opened up the cap on top of the boost pin and it does move up and down. Also the diaphragm does not have any visible signs of leaks. I'm a bit unclear about one thing in that video you linked me to (thx by the way very informative) Which item is the boost pin? The thing he says you can't pull out IF the "governor" pin is siezed? Or is it the thing deep down inside there that he wiggles back and forth for 15 mins? I was not able to pull the big pin that's attached to the diaphragm, just like the guy in the video... Does that indicate that I have the problem that he's trying to correct in the video? Should I be following his procedure?

Thanks so much!
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Re: Sudden loss of power.

Post by Growlerbearnz »

The boost pin is about an inch down inside the hole after you've removed the diaphragm and shaft. If you move the throttle lever while looking down the shaft you should see the pin poke out. In Land Rovers the pin seizes- that's the thing the guy is wiggling back and forth to free it up.

I didn't realise you were running WVO though- I don't have much experience with WVO, but I hear it can cause clogs in all sorts of places. It might be something inside the pump that's jammed or stuck, like the governor.
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Re: Sudden loss of power.

Post by Jedidiahwiebe »

Okay, awesome. So the boost pin is the thing he calls the 'governor' pin at 40 seconds into the video then? https://youtu.be/zvnQEIcrgWs?t=40s So when that get's seized it means that the rpms will govern out at lower rpms?

Injector pumps! Seems to be a topic not too well covered here on the forum. So I'm stoked we're talking about it. We'll see what can be learned and documented for future delica owners.

Yes I have been using veggie for a number of years, but I do only use the best oil, and use the full plant drive kit with 2 heat exchangers, and the thermostatically controlled electric heat element. So the oil is hot and clean. Nonetheless... I am aware that it can still make goop! Just thought i'd mention that I am on the cleaner side of grease burning. I do have a parts vehicle though, so the notion is that worst case scenario if the veggie wrecks something... I can replace it. Just hoping there that there is a quicker fix than swapping out the IP
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Re: Sudden loss of power.

Post by Growlerbearnz »

Jedidiahwiebe wrote:Okay, awesome. So the boost pin is the thing he calls the 'governor' pin at 40 seconds into the video then? https://youtu.be/zvnQEIcrgWs?t=40s So when that get's seized it means that the rpms will govern out at lower rpms?
That's the one. Bosch call it a guide pin. I wouldn't have called it a governor pin because it controls fuel quantity under boost rather than engine speed. (but it does so by operating the governor linkage, so technically it could be called a governor pin, though it's misleading.)

Ya know what: let's use the words Bosch, the inventor of our VE pump, uses.
image.jpeg
image.jpeg (61.86 KiB) Viewed 6259 times
Right. when there's no boost, the diaphragm (6) and sliding pin (8) sit up high, so the control cone (9) pushes the guide pin in. Once you have boost coming in the charge port (14), the diaphragm is pushed down, and the control cone allows the guide pin to extend, allowing more fuel to the injectors. If the guide pin is jammed it wont move out, and you'll never get the extra fuel you need to make power from the boost. The engine will run just fine, it will just make as much power as a non-turbo engine.
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Re: Sudden loss of power.

Post by Jedidiahwiebe »

It is truly a brilliant system! Thanks for the extremely solid replies. The diagram is just what I was looking for! Sooo I did the procedure outlined in the video you originally posted growlerbearnz. It went extremely well. Perhaps a little too well. Perhaps it was not stuck. After reassembly it ran about the same :-( Acutally I think it's getting worse. Now i can't get it above idle at all. Smokes a little black blue and white now.

Soooooo now I'm wondering if there is some kind of screen inside the fuel shutoff solenoid like on the l400 like in this link: http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Mitsub ... #Fuel_pump However I haven't yet been able to figure out how to remove the solenoid without pulling the pump. That being said I really don't know if there is even a screen in the l300 solenoid. I'm hoping that I come up with an alternative solution before having to pull the pump here soon.
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Re: Sudden loss of power.

Post by Growlerbearnz »

Just to be sure, go over the basics: oil in the water, water in the oil, bubbles in the radiator? Turbo actually making boost? any new fluid leaks?

I think you're going to be pulling the pump. Get a rebuild kit and do this : http://gnarlodious.com/Vanagon/Bosch_Pump/-Rebuild.

It's not rocket surgery, it's just a big 3D puzzle. Which needs to be really, REALLY clean when you reassemble it.
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Re: Sudden loss of power.

Post by Jedidiahwiebe »

This should probably be in the WVO section of the site... but if it's not the guide pin having seized, but has symptoms exactly like the guide pin being seized then it seems like something else in the chain of linkage towards the governor is stuck. Perhaps I should suck some kind of cleaning solution into the injection pump and let it sit in hopes of it un-gumming itself?

Mind you there still is the possibility that the IP has a screen in it. I found reference in a thread here by Christine Tardis Deli that there are in fact not one, but two screens in the IP. That very much seems like a possible point of constriction or likely suspect.
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Re: Sudden loss of power.

Post by Growlerbearnz »

You've got it. If the guide pin is free then it's something else, and all the something elses are inside the pump.

I don't recall any filters in the pump, if there are some I imagine they'd be replaceable mesh filters where the fuel enters.

I think this thread is ok in the current forum, as we've covered general IP diagnosis that is applicable to any kind of fuel. If you'd prefer it in the WVO forum though just say so and I'll move it. Easy.
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Re: Sudden loss of power.

Post by Jedidiahwiebe »

I found a filter screen inside the banjo bolt on the fuel return. Cleaned it. No improvement. I also pulled the fuel shutoff solenoid. It seems to be in working order. No screen there. I also noticed that the ground on the side of the cyl head was loose. It seemed to be connected to the solenoids on the IP. Gave it a polish and tighten. None of these things fixed it.

Still thinking of pulling the other solenoid on the pump. Not sure why there are two solenoids. Maybe it's something else.

I'm going to try and fill the IP with ATF after lunch and let it sit overnight while I'm out at a wedding. If it doesnt start right up after that I'm thinking of trying to send fluid backwards through the pump, as I'm convinced it's something... perhaps a passageway that is clogged!
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Re: Sudden loss of power.

Post by Growlerbearnz »

Jedidiahwiebe wrote:Still thinking of pulling the other solenoid on the pump.
The other electrical thing (on the side of the pump, with two wires) is the engine speed sensor, which drives the rev counter. No fluid passages in that one, I'm afraid.
Nothing says "poor workmanship" more than wrinkles in the duct tape.
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