Considering a Delica, questions about towing stability etc..

[Airwick]

First off: hi everyone and thanks for all the great info on this forum! I've been lurking around here for the last couple of weeks and feel like I have learned a lot already.

I have been looking around for a vehicle that will satisfy my needs and I just can't seem to find something I like commonly available here in NA (you can go ahead and call me picky, I admit it). Anyways, to sum it up I am looking for something functional that meets the following requirements:
1) Must be able to pull a 3500lb trailer up a slippery boat ramp (more details on what I mean by "be able to" later)
2) Must not be a pickup truck (I don't like them)
3) Must not kill me on gas either driving it empty or pulling the trailer
4) Must be a 5 speed (I hate automatics)
5) Must be suitable as a "daily driver" (even though I don't drive every day, I just don't want to keep 2 vehicles)

Basically the only thing that will be able to do all this has to be some sort of SUV/VAN with a reasonably sized diesel in it (none of that 300+ hp V8 nonsense you see around here for me!)
Anyways, I am looking at imported Pajeros, Landcruisers and the likes and of course Delicas! I must say I have a soft spot for Delis because I used to own a Hyundai H-100; which was basically an L-300, LWB, 2x4, 2.5L non turbo diesel (about 70hp) and I loved that thing!
Anyways, back to towing: I know it won't be lightning fast but I am not too worried about performance as I won't be towing that often over challenging terrain. I am in Victoria and would probably only have to go over the Malahat a couple times a year and I am pretty confident a Deli would make it just fine (based on my experience hauling stuff and towing with H-100). Don't tell anyone but I have done the trip to Sydney several times towing the boat with my poor Jetta; which is about as far as I would usually go...

My main concern would be stability when cruising on the highway due to the really short wheel base of the Deli. Can anyone comment on how solid the whole thing feels when driving down the highway at 90k (assuming level ground here ;)), with a 3000lb+ trailer in tow? (the jetta starts feeling a bit wobbly above 70-75k)
Other secondary concern would be using the low range on the ramp: it would be easier on the clutch but could stress the drivetrain if it's not actually slippery. Would I not be able to steer at all without risking hurting something or would slight turns be ok (I'm only talking about driving a 100m or so every time)?

Lastly, I have talked with Mardy (and maybe contaced some of you regarding used 5speed delis for sale in the area) and he suggested the "new" Spacegear...
I agree that it looks perfect for what I want to do but it's a bit more money and at least a couple of months to get a 5speed shipped from Japan... I am coming to Vancouver this week end to hopefully (unless it's gone by then...) test drive a Spacgear (automatic) and look at some 5speed L-300.

If you made it this far down this excessively long post, thank you (and congratulations), I would greatly appreciate your thoughts!

Cheers

PS: don't worry I don't normally talk that much!

[TardisDeli]

Hello Airwick (how did you choose the name?)

Come visit us in Burnaby, we have boats. Welcome to test drive my delica.

On the TardisDeli I tow the Boston Whaler Montauk fully custom camperized with heavy engine, so weight 3500 pounds. We have towed other things, with more weight for short distances (usually we use Jay's Chevy 1 ton van for the bigger boats). (shh ... I might tell of me pulling Jay's van and a boat cuz he was stuck on the icy hill).

Delica LOVES to tow things, it is very happy towing. The rev and shift points are the same, stability superb, you don't even know you're towing unless you check your mirrors, even at highway speeds. On ramps are always a bit slow speed to merge with or without a boat. Just remember the boat is wider than the deli.

There are no delica manufacturer written towing specs. Technically, one shouldnt tow more than half one's weight, so travel with the food cooler and stuff from the boat in the deli instead of in the trailer. Ensure all brakes work, and brake lines good (15 year old metal and rubber). Ensure tongue weight balanced. Good tires and bearings all round, lube the bearings before they catch fire, we use "Bearing Buddy"s on trailer.

Another delica person who tows often is Mararmeisto, in Victoria. He tows a loaded tent trailer, and 6 adults in his deli for the family trips. He towed a utility trailer with the entire family to alberta last year, no problems. See his posts from last year, his research into weights for towing, and his decision to add electric brakes with a manual control box by the drivers knee, and E&H Hitch. I use surge brakes on our boats, so can be towed by any vehicle. Konadog tows a gardening trailer. DocSavage towed his cattle grid.

Boat launch ramps: the 4WD low gear is perfect for steep slippery ramps, in forward or reverse. And the high height of our rear end (not lifted, just the usual) means our tail pipe is out of the water, and we can go deeper into the water for low tide times.

Shunting boats around our crowded yard, we use my Deli (instead of Jay's 1 ton) as the short wheel base is so much more manoevreable.

Hitches: We only recommend E & H Hitch in Burnaby, very strongly welded in place. $500 ish, but totally worth it. And you can keep your spare tire in place.

Basket: we use the Princess Auto basket on the back hitch for group camping, and have had almost 500 pounds on there with firewood, water, tarps etc. Again, Delica doesnt even notice.

Stability: even better than my 1984 diesel Jetta. We do search & rescue, so sometimes we're out on bad roads. Last weekend had 3 kayaks on the high roof, high top NOT crystal lite, on a rack, at highway speeds to Squamish, southerly winds gusting to about 20 knots in addition to road speed, occasionally could feel the gust but never unstable.

Fuel mileage not much different with a boat (versus Jay's we see the guage falling). We add WVO filtered Waste Veg oil, to the fuel (just pour it in the diesel filler tube) about a 1/4 ratio right now, higher in summer warm weather, none in freezing winter. Do not need any mods to just run the added WVO, it is perky on WVO.

Big Hills: well we live on one, but I havent towed up the Malahat or coquihalla. I would just click the overdrive off on my automatic, and enjoy the scenery. I try not to rev above 3000 max, and prefer rev about 2600 rpm, and have a sweet spot at 1700 rpm at 75 kmh. Only once have I gotten above the halfway mark on temp guage, but it was 90 degrees out, on a dusty logging road, about 6000 feet high, not towing but fully loaded camping.

My daily vehicle is the deli, had it since sept 07, and Jay tries to steal it as much as he can. 1991 Exceed, had 166,000 km, now has about 198,000 km. We camp at least 2 x a month in it. We removed the rear bench, built in a wooden platform milk crate high so we have 3 x3 crates under, which is also the height on the captains chairs when laid down. Queen foam mattress on top. Low height porta potty under the storage bench, campfire cooking kit in another crate, and rescue gear, and we're always ready to go off roading.

Automatic Transmission: best. Very rare to get a standard, which means very impossible to get a replacement tranny should you need it. I must admit, I absolutely did NOT want an auto trans, but now I wouldnt choose manual. With the overdrive on and off switch, and you can shift the lever manually, I have just as much control. I listen to my engine all the time (picky driver), so just lift my foot a bit to make it shift if the shift point isnt exactly where it should be depending on driving conditions, its an artform. Also, manual has higher revs, a lower top highway speed, and smaller fuel tank (yes, we calculate the differences for group treks).

Tires: BFG All Terrain 30 inch x 9.5 x15, go anywhere.

Only Problems: can't install a tow hitch on the front, the delica underframe is not there to attach hitch to. Other problem: reversing a boat trailer takes a bit of practice, as the deli is so manoevreable but the trailer isnt -- gets into odd angles. The deli comes with various mirrors, so don't need to add any for towing.

Whatever you buy, get it pre-purchase checked out by Glen and The Lads at Coombs Country Autos. Get the brake lines checked for rust.

So, in all, we love it. We do treat our TardisDeli gently, it is not some crap north american pickup to abuse, it is a family member (same as a family horse might pull a wagon). But we don't hesitate to go off roading etc, as you see from our posts we often organize groups treks.

And you thought your post was long, this reply is even longer.

Cheers, Christine.

[Green1]

Only Problems: can't install a tow hitch on the front, the delica underframe is not there to attach hitch to

No offence, but this is the second time I've corrected you on this one.
You CAN install a tow hitch on the front of the vehicle, my Delica came with one. You simply weld it to the bull-bar. Mitsubishi has a factory winch accessory that mounts there, and they advise towing the vehicle by the bull-bar if you ever need to. it is PLENTY strong enough for this purpose.

[TardisDeli]

Thanks Green1, I just haven't seen it done so it always slips my mind. Cheers, Christine.

[ShaneA]

Stability: even better than my 1984 diesel Jetta. We do search & rescue, so sometimes we're out on bad roads. Last weekend had 3 kayaks on the high roof, high top NOT crystal lite, on a rack, at highway speeds to Squamish, southerly winds gusting to about 20 knots in addition to road speed, occasionally could feel the gust but never unstable.

That is surprising, and impressive. One time I took my '84 Westfalia up the Coquihala and I got blown right into the next lane by a gust of wind while traveling 80km/h. Scared the crap out of me, I dropped down to 60 till I got through the gusty part.

Hitches: We only recommend E & H Hitch in Burnaby, very strongly welded in place. $500 ish, but totally worth it. And you can keep your spare tire in place.

I'll be sure to check them out when I get my Delica. I definitely will want a hitch for towing my small sailboat, and for putting a hitch mounted bike rack on.

Shane

[Airwick]

Thanks for the wealth of info!
I am going to be on the mainland Sunday to look at some Delis and have a chat with Mardy. Don't think I'll have time to come by but thanks for the test drive offer!
I sort of suspected it wouldn't feel to different weather you were empty or loaded and pulling a trailer (the Hyundai sure didn't seem to change much).
Looks like I might just have to get one! (unless I want to wait for a l-400), hmm, tough choice.
The only thing I am not quite convinced with is the auto vs. 5speed. I understand the reasoning but I just really don't like driving automatics in general...
There are at least 3 5speeds currently for sale in the area so they are around, just much less common.

[after oil]

christine just wrote her own delica wiki...

but seriously, the towing anecdote really answers the question. that would be great posted somewhere easy to find, like in the wiki....

[mararmeisto]

Hitches: We only recommend E & H Hitch in Burnaby, very strongly welded in place. $500 ish, but totally worth it. And you can keep your spare tire in place.

Just a point of clarification: the hitch assembly is welded together (each one is a custom fit according to Rick), and then assembly is BOLTED to the van. Don't let anyone weld a hitch to your van: these are a unibody design and welding large things to it will muck up the integrity.

That being said, I spent the extra 150$ to get off my island to drive to Burnaby. Good design, and it has extra long arms that reach further forward than the buy-it-off-the-shelf model some of the dealers are bringing over. Mind you, this E&H hitch has a much greater capacity than the van, but still: four mounting points versus the two is better in my mind.

BC requires a brake assist (I don't know if it HAS to be electric) if what you are towing is greater than half the weight of the tow vehicle. I went ahead and installed an electric brake assist, but only one of the last three trailers I've owned were heavy enough or had electric brakes in them. That being said, I'm thinking of adding electric brakes to my utility trailer, because we do load that little bugger up, so it might be a good idea.

Echoing the comment on the no-specified-towing-capacity, but the 'trailer' advertised in the accessories pamphlet looks no bigger than twice the size of a motorcycle trailer (I guess the Japanese don't camp much). Keep in mind your engine temperature when towing, you might want to include a pyrometer, watch your rpms, and just go easy. I agree with Christine: these seem to be able to tow quite a bit, they just won't do it with any great amount of speed.

[Airwick]

I agree and wouldn't want anything welded on there, bolt on is the way to go.
It's going to be a busy Deli-shopping week end for me: I have 6 5speed deli lined up for this week end so I am expecting I will have decided on one really soon! (Unless Mardy successfully convinces me to wait for a Spacegear...)
I'll just have to figure out the logistics of it and if I buy one from the mainland then I will make sure I get the hitch done before I bring it back.

Regarding the trailer brakes, it has surge brakes on it. I am crazy enough to pull 3000lb with a jetta but not quite crazy enough to do it without brakes on the trailer (even staying below 70)!

I'll be towing on week ends only to go sailing so where is the rush anyways? Plus the difference between driving 80 vs 110 doesn't get you there that much later unless you are really going far anyways!

[oceaneer77]

We had a hitch made for the delica in Sooke by Driver enterprises. Its similar to the E&H hitch from Vancouver and has 3 receivers to put more stuff on.
I would really Recommend a exhaust Temperature gauge (EGT or Pyrometer) as with all that weight you could cook your engine.
Our delica tows great but we have only pulled about 1700Lbs.

Thanks
oceaneer77

[jessef]

The few welded-to-the-frame Delica hitches that I've seen so far are done that way because it saves time for the fabricator and you would think would lower the cost for the buyer, but it looks like that's not the case.

I would recommend Jesse at Parkside Auto.

His hitches are not welded on the unibody frame like many you see.

His design is a direct bolt-on which is by and large much better than a direct weld point to the frame and stocky like a bull.

He's on here in the forums under 'parkside' .

604-309-7718