Suddenly won't start

pluckmyeyeout · Post by **pluckmyeyeout** » Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:25 pm

Anyone know the part#? Trying to figure it out with the Mitsubishi dealer, but they're not very helpful.

Post by **Growlerbearnz** » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:13 pm

I don't think Mitsubishi sell the solenoid individually- they appear to only supply the injection pump as a whole. The injection pump is fairly standard though (it's a Bosch VE clone) and used on many, many vehicles. If there's a diesel/injection shop in town (http://www.bostonfuelinjection.com/ for instance) I'd expect them to have the part in stock, though it's probably a good idea to remove your one first so you have something to compare.

I suspect the one in the Ebay listing is correct though...

pluckmyeyeout · Post by **pluckmyeyeout** » Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:07 pm

So I was able to loosen an injector and turn it over. There was a little bit of fuel spitting out from the top (see pic). What does that mean?

Post by **Growlerbearnz** » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:26 pm

If there was normal fuel delivery the diesel would be practically flooding out. When bleeding the injectors you normally have to wrap a rag around the injector to stop diesel from getting all over the engine, and even then it gets everywhere. That doesn't look like enough diesel to me- I'd expect the whole injector to be wet after 5 seconds of cranking. That looks like a bit of fuel that was left in the lines weeping out.

TL:DR; as long as that picture is taken after 5 seconds of cranking I'd say you're not getting normal fuel delivery. Solenoid replacement time!

pluckmyeyeout · Post by **pluckmyeyeout** » Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:10 am

If there was normal fuel delivery the diesel would be practically flooding out. When bleeding the injectors you normally have to wrap a rag around the injector to stop diesel from getting all over the engine, and even then it gets everywhere. That doesn't look like enough diesel to me- I'd expect the whole injector to be wet after 5 seconds of cranking. That looks like a bit of fuel that was left in the lines weeping out.

I did wipe it up a bit, but there definitely was not a lot... Just spitting a bit.

OK... So now... Who's got a walk-through for solenoid replacement? :D

pluckmyeyeout · Post by **pluckmyeyeout** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:54 am

So I ended up ordering the Solenoid, but was just discussing with a mechanic friend last night. He was thinking about a lift pump failure... Is there an electronic or mechanic lift pump, and is it in the fuel tank or external? Could this be something to check? Where is it and how would I check it?

Post by **FalcoColumbarius** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:07 pm

http://www.delica.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=17225

The Technical Reference Libraries are always a worthwhile perusal.

Falco.

Post by **Growlerbearnz** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:29 pm

pluckmyeyeout wrote: Is there an electronic or mechanic lift pump

?

Nope, though Bosch VE injection pumps have a built-in rotary pump that does the same job. It's unlikely to have failed without taking out the rest of the pump's internals, but you *could* test it by pumping the primer button on the fuel filter while someone cranks the engine. The primer is the big black plastic knob on the top of the fuel filter- it's spring loaded, and takes quite a bit of force to pump.

pluckmyeyeout · Post by **pluckmyeyeout** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:23 pm

The Technical Reference Libraries are always a worthwhile perusal.

I know it's the bane of all forum members everywhere when a newb doesn't search the archive before posting a question, so I appreciate the link Mr. Falco! I did have time to do a cursory search but didn't see this... Fascinating stuff.

you *could* test it by pumping the primer button on the fuel filter while someone cranks the engine. The primer is the big black plastic knob on the top of the fuel filter- it's spring loaded, and takes quite a bit of force to pump.

And what would I expect to see (or not see) when doing this test? Thank YOU Growler!

Post by **Growlerbearnz** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:13 pm

Pumping the primer should do the same job as the IP's internal lift pump- if the engine were to start (or try to start) then you know your internal lift pump has failed somehow. You also know you're about to spend many moneys on a rebuilt injection pump. Which will need a new cutoff solenoid, so you won't have *entirely* wasted your money...

I'd be surprised though. I've never heard of the IP's rotary pump failing, but I guess there's a first time for everything.

pluckmyeyeout · Post by **pluckmyeyeout** » Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:16 am

Update.

I finally received the new fuel solenoid and was able to get it installed. Haven't had a chance to reassemble everything, so I'll update once I have a chance to do that and see whether it gets the 'ol Deli running or not. Fingers crossed. I'll do a little walkthrough of how I did it, some things to think about, and post some pictures. Growler can tell me what I did wrong.

1. Stuff a few rags and maybe an oil pan/large flat piece of cardboard under the vehicle. There will be fuel leakage. I didn't do this until it started leaking.

2. Remove the top bracket holding the wiring harnesses. I unplugged C from D, then E from F, then disconnected F and D from the bracket. I took out the cotter pin at G, then unscrewed A and B. YMMV

: remove bracket.jpg (107.46 KiB) Viewed 7304 times

3. Get a 15/16" clawfoot wrench. I also think a 24mm would work. I just took a caliper to the new solenoid and got that measurement. The 15/16" worked great. Ultimately I didn't need much torque to break it free, and didn't apply too much torque reinstalling it. None of my local stores had it, so I ordered this one: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B002YKI7ZE

No regular wrench fit and the clawfoot worked famously. On another note, my VW diesel mechanic said that he's had to replace/rehab more than one fuel solenoid and he actually ended up getting a really cheap wrench and grinding the sides down as pictured. I used Photoshop, but he said it helps him get the job done when it comes up. I didn't have to grind mine down.

: 271EJ7rnYlqL._SL1500_.jpg (42.45 KiB) Viewed 7304 times

4. Disconnect the solenoid trigger wire and remove the male trigger from the bracket. More below. I separated H from i and J from K, but in hindsight, I may not have needed to disconnect J from K. Just pushing J/H down worked. To get the hood (M) off, I used a wire coat hanger with a hook on the end. I also destroyed the old solenoid in the process. I may not have even had to remove the hood/trigger wire assembly (M,N, H), but it came out a LOT easier without it. As I unscrewed the solenoid, the trigger assembly was getting squeezed up against the thingy above it (P), making removing difficult. In hindsight, this may have actually broken the solenoid. Who's to say? I had to solder a new metal o-ring connection to the end of the trigger wire to attach to the new solenoid at point N.

: 2016-10-25 16.03.41.jpg (306.04 KiB) Viewed 7304 times

5. I did my DAMNDEST to unscrew L to no avail. Finally I bent "i" down out of the way just enough to get one turn at a time from the clawfoot wrench, which was enough. Once the solenoid came loose, fuel started to leak. The bottom part of the solenoid (part "O") was stuck in the solenoid well and required a hefty heave-ho with some needle-nose. I'm optimistic that this was the problem!!! We shall see. I should ad that I needed a 10" 3/8" ratchet extension to break the solenoid free/torque it down. There is NO room to work here!

: 2016-10-25 16.03.36.jpg (76.67 KiB) Viewed 7304 times

: 2s-l1600.jpg (51.32 KiB) Viewed 7304 times

6. I reinstalled the new solenoid following the reverse procedure, the reattached the solenoid trigger wire (part "N") after the solenoid was screwed all the way back in.

This is as far as I got before running out of time. I just need to reassemble everything, then give it a whirl. Now... I'm assuming I should bleed the injectors before trying to start her up? Anything else to consider? Do I even need to bleed them?

Another question: What's with the pink? I think I understand, when you take something apart and reassemble it, you want to match the torque/placement, but what's the point of painting part "L" for example?

To be continued...

Post by **Growlerbearnz** » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:08 pm

Great writeup! It shall be immortalised in the Technical Reference Library. Eventually.

You might not need to bleed the fuel lines, but if it starts and only runs on 3 cylinders then try bleeding the one you opened earlier when testing for fuel flow.

I don't see any issues with how you did it. The pink marks are put there when the pump is rebuilt- you mark each bolt when you've torqued it (so you don't forget to torque anything) but afterwards the marks let you know if anything is coming loose- if the marks don't line up, something has moved. It's the sort of thing engineers do, so I suspect the IP has been rebuild by a conscientious diesel shop at some stage. Is there any other pink writing on or near the engine?

Fingers crossed it starts. The stuck plunger sounds promising, it would be a shame if it didn't work after all that effort!

pluckmyeyeout · Post by **pluckmyeyeout** » Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:32 pm

I will check for pink on the engine tomorrow. Thanks for the info. I guessed as much - it made sense on the (old) solenoid, but wondered about the other screws/bolts.

How would I know if it's only firing 3 cylinders?

Post by **Growlerbearnz** » Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:10 pm

It'll run, but very roughly. It might even stall if you don't keep the revs up.

pluckmyeyeout · Post by **pluckmyeyeout** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:35 pm

Well - It didn't solve the problem, but it definitely changed! Check out the video. Also: lots of white smoke! Bled all 4 injectors... What's next?

https://youtu.be/pvKxfG-66sI

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