Tires - BFG AT's in the rain - Your experience/opinions

[jessef]

Question for you guys (marjority) running BFG AT's on your Delica's.

How do they perform in the rain on slick days on the road ?

I love them, but they were horrible on most of my vehicles in the past when it rained. They would slip, spin out and slide if I even remotely slammed on the brakes compared to most other tires I've had.

I know they 'look' great, aggressive and all, but for pure functionality. Being a heavy brick-like vehicle, how are they in our fall-spring wet weather ?

About to purchase some tires and was planning on going with either Revo's or Procomp's. Haven't eliminated BFG AT's from the list just yet.

Jesse

[asorensen]

My experience with the BFG's has been fairly good. I do notice that I tend to spin my wheels a little when accelerating from a stop when it is wet out but I have always thought that was because the van is manual transmission. My Brother has the same tires on a automatic trans jeep and there is noticably less spinning. I don't have tons of experience with off road tires though so I don't know how objective I can really be! Good luck

Andy

[BCDelica]

Is there a difference between new and old BFG's? And vehicle type/power makes a difference doesn't it?

My old Dakota had low tread, old style 33" BFG AT's and they were horrible as you described, yet rarely do we have anything to complain about the BFGs' on the Deli. Had guessed the factors were; newer tire compound, horsepower, and weight distribution. Did I every mention that the Delica is a far better 4x4?

[jessef]

I'm just weary about putting BFG AT's on a heavy vehicle like this.

As a comparison, I put 31" BFG AT's on my Pajero last fall and they sucked so bad in the rain, it wasn't funny.

Example. Steep incline on boundary road by kingsway heading south. Rear tires kicked out with the slightest acceleration.

I guess I'm wondering why I see so many Deli's with BFG AT's nowadays on the roads.

I know there are different (not better or worse) AT's on the market with much better wet/ice/slush performance but keep seeing the BFG's all over the place.

My plus's about them are :
-best tread life of any AT on the market
-when aired down to 5-10 psi the side lugs grab nicely in the sand and dry rock
-average in soft packed and power snow

Bad points :
- slick concrete/ice the tires are like bald slicks
- need to rotate more often that some other AT's
- harder ride (compound)

I'm doing this post because I have a set of 31" BFG AT's that I can put on the Deli but am hesitant about it because of the crappy wet sliding/accelerating/braking I've had with them in the past 2 years (newest BFG AT KO's compound).

Maybe it's do with the front weight/load over the wheels that make the Deli grip better in the wet/slick roads compared to other trucks, I'm not sure.

Just thought I'd ask to see why almost ever Deli I see has BFG AT's and has anyone experienced fishtailing/sliding while accelerating/braking when it rains out.

Comments would be appreciated from 90% BFG Deli owners

Jesse

[Green1]

I know there are different (not better or worse) AT's on the market with much better wet/ice/slush performance but keep seeing the BFG's all over the place.

The problem is, every time I hear someone raving about something other than the BFGs I google it and find hundreds of posts talking about how awfull the alternative one is, and how great the BFGs are...

I'm looking for a good AT tire, and it seems likely I'll go with the BFGs, but if there's a "better" alternative I'm all for it... I just haven't been seeing consistantly good reviews about any other tire (whereas the BFGs seem to get the consistent good reviews)

[TardisDeli]

Love our 30 BFG AT. Totally reliable, and always feel in control when stopping turning etc. I was commuting daily 25 km each way, part highway, part busy streets in Vancouver full of idiots whose licenses ought to be revoked. So sudden stops in rain a daily thing. Also do lots of off-road, and with the DELICA group, so can compare our rpms' and speed, excellent.

If you are in the Vancouver area, come for a test drive with us when we have another delica meet.
Cheers, Christine.

[BCDelica]

BFG's have come with the two vehicles we bought but would choose them for the long tread life and there wet snow performance. I gear down often around wet paved downhill corners, for engine braking, excepting at times for a little kick out of the rear but it hasn't happened. Sure it could be made to happen!

Is there a good equation somewhere of; tread life versus purchase price with an adjustable factor for visual appeal. Your Procomps looked pretty damm nice, can't squeeze em' in to your Deli?

[jessef]

The problem is, every time I hear someone raving about something other than the BFGs I google it and find hundreds of posts talking about how awfull the alternative one is, and how great the BFGs are...

That's the way it seems things are.

People swear by one tire they use while others put it down.

I know two things for a fact.

BFG AT KO's on my Pajero were great in the mud and sucked hard on wet pavement.

ProComp AT's on my Pajero have excellent grip on wet pavement but didn't fare as well as the BFG's in mud.

My only reasoning for choosing the BFG's over the ProComp's on my incoming Deli are the difference of $150 and playing in the mud.

$150 difference in cost to me isn't worth rear ending someone or sliding around a corner but having more advantage in mud.

My own statement just won me over to Procomp's again.

Your Procomps looked pretty damm nice, can't squeeze em' in to your Deli?

If I could, I would. 32's just don't quite squeeze in there.

The BFG's I have access to are the outcome of my buddy ditching them in favor of the same Procomp AT's I have on the Pajero.

I was just curious as to why most Deli's I've seen have them on.

I swore on the BFG's 100% and pushed them on all my 4x4'in friends (I do quite a bit of wheelin') until I tried the Procomp's.

I've tried the following tires on the Pajero, an 86 lifted XJ and an old scout.

Old-style BFG AT's
BFG AT KO's (new)
BFG mud's (new)
ProComp AT's
ProComp Xterrain's
Toyo open country's
Yoko Geolander's

All 31 and 33" tires from my buddywhoownsatireshop.

Out of the lot, I prefer the softer ride and the wet/ice traction of the procomp's and the Toyo open country's but the procomps are a lot less $$$.

All of my 'testing' has been around the island up and down the highway to/from Vic/Tofino, wheelin' around backcountry Nanaimo, sea to sky hwy van to whistler, up to black tusk and tons of logging roads past lillooet and dry dust/sand around watson bar.

Looks like I've made my decision.

Jesse

[Green1]

I'm not criticizing you on this one because I've never tried either tire so I have no real personal experience to draw from, but I googled the pro-comps... you're the only person who seems to have ever written a favourable review of them...
After hearing how great you thought they were I figured I might try them too, but all the reviews I could find talk about how they were worse than the BFGs in every situation (mud, pavement, snow, rain, etc), had serious de-laminating problems, and a pitifully short tread life...

So I really don't know what to believe...

I'm not sold on the BFGs, but I haven't seen any other tire get consistently decent reviews...

[jessef]

I read the same on the ProComp's which is why I was hesitant to buy them.

I didn't even know they existed until a wheelin' buddy showed up near placer mtn where we were having a wheelin camping trip.

They were 33's as were my BFG's at the time so we just swapped them from his Jeep to mine for a few weeks and that sold me on them. He was that confident that I'd pick up a pair after using them.

3 of the guys are converts now.

I've been running Procomp's on our XJ for 2 years and just under a year on the Pajero.

Both are wearing well considering the driving we do.

The only two things that keep nagging at me about the procomp's are negative reviews compared to BFG's and the faster wear for tread life.

I don't care what I read or what anyone says, the latest compound (AT KO's) on the BFG's wear amazingly slow on all kinds of driving and there is nothing that I have tried of know of anyone that has logged a lot of mileage that fare better than the BFG's for tread wear life.

Having said that, I have had too many 'slippery' occasions while driving around on wet roads with them.

I'm going to put 31 procomp AT's on my Delica when it comes in.

I'll post the pics when they're on.

As for reviewing them, I don't see how they can fare any differently compared to my Pajero.

I've taken that thing everywhere this past winter/fall and it's been my favorite rig.

Anyone that asks me what I like better, I say the procomp's and it's not a biased view because I still think the BFG's kick ass. Just not in the rain (which is just happens to pour whenever it likes here)

Jesse

[JMK]

Michelin, BF Goodrich, Goodyear? Makes me think of people debating whether they should eat at Wendey's, Tim Hortons, MacDonald's or Subway.

Glad I didn't see (actually couldn't find any) any of those bad reviews on the Nokian Vativa AT's before I bought them because the difference between them and the perfectly good but non DOT approved Yokohama Geolanders I took off was unbelievable.

ANyway, I'd still be interested in seeing fome of the bad reviews for them if you can give me some links even though it's too late now in my case. Here's more or less the types of reviews that I had dug up before I decided to buy them:

2- Nokian Vativa Reviews
Full review by
Robert Raney
on 7th Apr 2008

User Rating : 10
Respect : 0
Bad Points: Not enough outlets in my area.

General comments: These tires do not slip in heavy rain conditions. I have not incurred a single skid in poor weather conditions. Best set of tyres I have every had on all wheel drive vehicle. period. Do not slip on wet weather conditions.
Robert Raney's review and ratings | 47 words

Review by
Guest.
on 5th Feb 2008

User Rating : 9
Respect : 0
Nokian Vativa on a 2004 Dodge Durango V8 whether in awd or 4 wheel these tires rout the worst upstate storms you can imagine. I drive from Central NY to New York City 2 times a month and let me tell you, when sitting on the side of the road in blinding snow storms & ice, I make it home confidently. Only quirk with the tires is that you have to play around with the air pressure to get the right ride & handling. My $900 set of Wrangler RS are like being on ice skates. So glad I got the Vativa's a ...
Guest.'s full review | 144 words

[BCDelica]

Having almost two years of driving Delica A with Nokian Vativa AT and Delica B with BFG AT would say there are quite similar overall.

But;

• Quiet and smooth highway driving - Nokian's win - certainly more so when wet
  Wet pavement - Nokian's slightly better
  Ice - BFG's slightly better
  Snow (westcoast variety) - BFG's
  Gravel - equal
  Mud - BFG's big time
  Tread durability - Nokian's stand up to using chain chains better
  Sidewall toughness - BFG's
  Tread life - BFG's maybe a tiny bit better (just be the weight difference between a P25 (BFG'ed) and a P35 (Nokian'ed) crystal lite)

Worst things about each;

• New BFG AT's grap, hold, and throw plenty of gravel into my wheel wells.
  Nokian's more prone to leaks via sharp rooks, nails and even glass - haven't had the BFG's in for a repair once - not including having a leaky valve replaced.

[jwfchase]

We have brand new BFG's on right now and they seem to have been awesome in the rain (though we don't usually get Lower Rainland type rain here too often). When they come new there is lots of siping on the lugs; most of the BFG's I've seen driving around on other people's trucks w/ a lot more Km's on them seem to have almost no siping left, just bare lugs. I know the overall wear rating on the BFG's is pretty good, but maybe the siping wears through quickly, and if so, maybe they can be taken in to a tire shop to get re-siped? Just my uneducated guess!

[Erebus]

I don't care what I read or what anyone says, the latest compound (AT KO's) on the BFG's wear amazingly slow on all kinds of driving and there is nothing that I have tried of know of anyone that has logged a lot of mileage that fare better than the BFG's for tread wear life.

All else being equal, long tire life comes from hard compound, and hard compound has less grip than soft compound. So tire life and traction are on a teeter-totter, one goes up and the other goes down.

I haven't had either, but I do have Bridgestone Dueler AT Revo LT 235/75 R15 on stock rims. I'm not impressed with their snow performance, Green1's much smaller all-seasons match them for snow-on-ice offroading. And on Calgary's icy roads they aren't very good, the back end kicks out without trying very much.

Haven't tried them in real offroading yet. They are the only tires I've had on the Delica, so have nothing to compare to. Bought them based on reviews. From what I read here, the Nokians are my next choice.

Jesse, what I read in your posts is that you really don't like the BFGs in the rain, which you get often where you are. You seem to be trying to convince yourself that the BFGs are okay. Re-read your own posts as if they are someone else's and see what you would advise him/her.

[JMK]

Erebus,

I think you are making a wise decision based on my limited experience with the Geolanders. When I got the Deli in January I notice the rear end kicked out on me going around corners on residential streets even though I have LSD. I finally left it in 4WD full time for town and would switch it back to 2WD when I got to the highway.

I assumed it was simply a function of the Deli's from factor as the Geolanders looked almost new. At first I was simply going to get the BFAT's. I liked the way they looked: agressive and bold, in other words they had that "cool factor" going for them. Then the retired manager from KAL Tire in Calgary that has nothing to gain by recommending Nokians told me I should really consider them. I did the research, and then I was sold (I didn't seem to find the 'negative reviews that Green alluded to). Since they have been on the Deli, I have not been back in 4WD, even at the Columbia Icefields which is my playground everyweekend this time of year, and the parking lots like Hilda Creek are still completely covered in snow and ice or slush.

A friend of mine said he suspects that a lot of the Deli's are sporting BFAT's because of their look and not their function. By reading the other threads on tires you can see that opinion collaborated: the beefy look for many is the most important factor they are after when choosing tires. I also went with the Nokian Vativa AT's over their other all weather model also because of vanity, the Vativa's have white sidewall lettering and a visably more agressive lug pattern, the the other all weather model doesn't have the white lettering. In the end I really do like the look of them, and I find that the results of putting these tires on have far exceeded my expectations of subsequent performance on slippery roads. I no longer bemoan the fact that I took perfectly good tires off the Deli simply because they did not have DOT approval stamped on the sidewall (I would have left them on had it not been for the fact I was going to the Island where I knew you could get nabbed for that if you got inspected). You won't be disappointed with your choice either I suspect.