Fighting the black smoke

[pelex]

Hello,

On my Delica every time I do a cold start it produces a cloud of black smoke. It also does the same thing when I accelerate rapidly.
The black smoke goes away once RPMs are steady. Only during acceleration a cloud it produced regardless if engine is cold or warm.

Air filter & fuel filters were changed recently as well as engine oil.

Fuel economy is about 11L/100km.. qwhich is not bad from my point of view..
Has anyone had similar issues and was successfully in “fixing” this?
Is this below a proper way of approaching this
- Block EGR valve ???
- Clean injectors
- Install glow plugs

Is there any amount of black smoke that is “normal” ?

Thanks

Pelex

[Schwa]

There will always be a puff when you stomp on it, unless you get the pump completely re-built... There's a delay between when the injection pump adds more fuel and when the turbo spins into action, giving the engine air. Black smoke on startup is likely injectors if it's a bit rough, could also be timing. Does it start up right away or does it take a bit of cranking?

[pelex]

it starts right away...
Actually I have to comfirm if cloud is black when I do cold engine start...I am usually inside the car then.. there is a small cloud produced, but not sure if it is black

[sid]

Hey

I still get a puff of smoke when I accellerate, and yes i agree it must be something to do with the delay between fuel delivery and actual combustion. My van give a little puff at start up, and it starts instantly every time The worst though is when its warmed up and you come up to a 90 degree corner, let off the throttle and coast around, then when you get back on the "gas" you get the smoke. I have had my injectors cleaned by CVI, plus the Mardy tune... my air, fuel, oil filter are all clean as is the oil. done timing belt, balancer etc etc. I have had my ECU checked, all fine. My van runs good and i get mileage well within normal parameters discussed here. I can cruise all day long at 110/120 no problem on the highway (except steep climbs). I have tried fuel adds, bio diesel and it really doesnt make much difference. So I am living with it, Maybe a 15 yr old diesel smokes a bit... maybe some more or less than others. but i am not going to really worry bout it any more. thats my 2Cents.

sid.

[pelex]

Hello Sid,

Thanks for sharing. It is good to know I am not alone and you have probably saved me a few $$ for not going into replacing more parts right away...

The questions I have, wil this anyhow impact AirCare inspection ?

pelex

[Schwa]

From what I hear it sounds perfectly normal for our older turbo-diesel engines, it's a matter of learning how to drive it... Punching the accelerator at low RPMs produces a puff of black smoke, to avoid it just increase the pressure on the pedal gradually. Airscam only tests for opacity, and even though mine puffs out black smoke when you stomp on it, it passed easily. You'd only have to be concerned with huge clouds of smoke or lots of visible smoke going up hills, etc... The rules are very slack for these engines.

[JMK]

What I did previously this year:
- all new filters
- new timing belt, etc.
- new glow plugs
- rebuilt ECU
- rebuilt injectors

I just had my injectors tested and they needed a rebuild, so I did that. Still have black smoke, in fact more, which kind of makes sense if the injectors are now performing better. SO the final obvious step will be to have a dynamic timing done. I chatted with a journeyman diesel mechanic at work today and he told me that dynamic timing is by far better than mechanically timing using a dial guage. Dynamic timing can measure exactly when the cylinder is being fed the fuel in real time. Other than the EGR valve thing which most people say has little effect, that's about the last thing I can do before I give up and throw in the towel.

I don't have much faith that a simple tune up can address this issue satisfactorily if it stems from faulty injectors in the first place and the timing is not done dynamically. I think the injectors have to be professionally tested with the right equipment and then rebuilt (at substantial cost) if necessary. Not sure where in the lower mainland you can get injectors tested and timing done dynamically, in Calgary it is GLC Fuel Systems: $55.00 for testing only, $475.00 to rebuild (includes the test), and $200.00 to time.

I'll post back when I get it done, probably next week some time. Hope I have good news to justify the $700.00 I will have spent on timing and injectors alone, but we'll never know until I try.

[jmac4u]

I had exactly the same problem black smoke more than normal loss of power going
uphills.Took my van to Kamoolps Thompson Valley Diesel Injection Ltd.
ask for Holly he found some kind of arm that operates burned fuel that opens and closes a valve.Sorry i can not explain this any better.The arm is under the van and had corroded off.After he repaired the broken arm way more power going up hills and less smoke.He also rebuild my injector pump earlier in the year this guy knows his diesels 250-372-9300...hope this helps...john M

[delicat]

JMK, before you throw the towel... don't forget the injection pump!

I've had mine rebuilt, not simply changing the seals but full rebuilt. The smoke is completely gone unless I'm going on a steep and long hill and then it's still barely noticeable. At start up it gives the normal little puff of black smoke.

A simple test is to have your truck in park, bring the RPM to close to 4000rpm and see if you have steady black smoke or more like a barely observable clear smoke. (or just drive uphill I guess!)

jmac4u, sounds like you're referring to the EGR valve which can be a culprit with black smoke. Usually it will smoke without real load on the engine when it's the EGR that defaults.

David

[JMK]

Delicat,

Thanks for the tip, I hadn't thought about that. I'll put that on the list then. Once that is done, I will have just about equaled my purchase price in post-purchase expenditures. (Not all of them were maintenance related, some were simply goodies).

When you did the rebuild, did you source a kit, or is it just a matter of getting the appropriate viton type o-rings?

[JMK]

John M,

Do you remember what they charged for the rebuild? At the moment there's a crew working on the TCH twinning that I see daily that are from Kamloops, so if I wanted to send my pump there for rebuild I could arrange free transport for it in all likelyhood. I'm thinking they may be cheaper than GLC. Also did they dynamically time your unit too?

[docsavage]

That arm may be the wastegate control for the turbo. EricN posted a how to adjust boost pressure with pictures a year or so ago.

James

[delicat]

JMK, I decided to rebuild my pump as all of a sudden it started leaking like a faucet and the fuel adjustment screw had been tampered with so I knew I wasn't getting all I could out of the pump.

This happened a few days before I left for holiday so Mardy took my van while I was away and got it done for me. Just changing the seals might have been fine but I like my truck and decided to spend the extra to get an overhaul which I don't regret. I still have to meet with the Injection place where they did the overhaul to get more details and maybe some finetuning if required but I'm quite happy how my van runs now. So no idea if they used Viton seals or not but I'll let you know once I find out.

[JMK]

Thanks for the comments. I was just thinking that in view of this discussion it's probably foolish to spend $200.00 to do the timing and then rebuild the injector. And it seems to be a given that if you haven't had the more modern viton type seals installed, it's only a matter of time before the LSD will have the old ones leaking anyway.

So I'm thinking the best approach it to rebuild the injector as a matter of routine preventative maintenance, and then do the timing. I must thank the posters in this thread for pointing me down that path, as it's probably going to be much better in the long run to do it that way anyway. I'm wondering if once that is done, do you still need to use the diesel additive?

[Golf Cart]

[quote="JMK"]Thanks for the comments. I was just thinking that in view of this discussion it's probably foolish to spend $200.00 to do the timing and then rebuild the injector. And it seems to be a given that if you haven't had the more modern viton type seals installed, it's only a matter of time before the LSD will have the old ones leaking anyway.

JMK

Adding 2 ounces of 2 stroke motor oil to a fill up will up the sulphur content. Its the Ultra-Low sulphur diesel that I watch for ( 0.0015 ppm).