An interesting electrical problem. [now with Wet floor fix!]

[freestyler]

First a little back-story:

So my van is a '93 Jasper with dual batteries. If I end up leaving the van sitting for +5 days, the batteries (new, as of only a few months) would mysteriously go dead. Like all things, I got pissed off at it, and went to chase down this bastard of a short. With everything off and no key, I would get arcing when I tap the posts on the batteries with the connections (I removed similar and both connections from batteries to prevent the obvious arc from one battery to the other). Anyways, I started pulling fuses that I managed to narrow it down to the interior door lights fuse. It's a 10amp and on #1 slot in the fuse box, as removing this one and repeating what I did above would not generate a spark. This slot controls all interior lights, the backup beeper, CD player, dash clock and the buzzer telling you left your driving lights on when the Van is off.

Now to the interesting part:

The above is all straight forward: obviously there could be a short in any of those locations... (any help on that one would be awesome) but what is really interesting is that I get a minor squealing, much like a constant high pitch noise from a mouse or small bird. This only stops after I press the "on" button of the center-top compartment light left of the driver.

Needless to say I'm a touch baffled and am looking for help as I'm by no means proficient with electrical wiring and troubleshooting... don't suppose anyone has encounter something like this before or has any tips?

Cheers,
Freestyler

[EDIT] A wet floor fix/solution is on the 2nd page with pics of restoring the front bumper with a heat gun [/EDIT]

[EDIT2] After driving around and parking the van outside in the rain over the last few weeks, the wet floor has yet to return! [/EDIT2]

[jessef]

You've got a short somewhere.

Tracking it down is the time consuming thing.

I'd first check all of the grounding connections. Once that's out of the way, check the stereo first, DRL relay, lights,etc.. any loose/bare wire underneath the dash can get the arch going. Anything that you can think of that's been modified.

[john n]

Ah yes, the phantom circuit.
The phantom circuit only differs from a short in that the phantom circuit shorts after a load. If a short is ahead of the load, then the fuse would blow, because a direct short jumps the amps thru the roof. A phantom circuit is after the load and the battery drains through the load - hence your battery going flat over a relatively short while and no fuses blowing.

The easiest way to track it down is to disconnect the negative terminal of the battery, place a test light between the negative terminal and the body ground. If there is enough battery drain to light up the test light it's enough to drain the battery. Of course, having an issue with the door light system throws a curve into the system - if your door is open, the dome lights will light up or the door ajar light comes on - causing a drain on the battery and the test light to come on. So the door switch has to be disabled, either by pulling the switch out or by holding the switch closed manually or some other way.

After getting over that hurdle, you can start tracking down the offending circuit by disconnecting portions of the dome light fuse circuit until the test light goes out.

The most likely areas to look at are the add ons and modifications, as jfarsang says, it will be a process of elimination to locate the cause.

[freestyler]

All good suggestions, and yes there are some mods to the wiring by the past Japanese owner. It's going to take time to figure out what he did *sigh*

I forgot to mention, in the interesting part, that this squealing thing only happens when the fuse is pulled/removed. As is; there is presumably no power to the light and pushing the 'on' button stops the frequent, yet seemingly random intermittent, squeal (the light does not come on, yet this still happens). Hence the interesting part of this very annoying problem. Thoughts?

[FalcoColumbarius]

You've got a short somewhere.

I've got shorts in my closet.

[jwfchase]

It's too bad Mystery Machine hasn't been on here in awhile- he seems to have a pretty thorough knowledge of the wiring on these things.

[john n]

You have a cross feed.
Somewhere there has probably been 2 hot leads wired into one load, explaining why the squealy thingy is happening when the dome fuse is pulled and the light switch is on.
The most likely culprit is the stereo. A lot of people use a meter to find a ground, but if they inadvertently meter a grounded bulb it will read as low or no resistance - that's the way bulbs work, low resistance = high amperage and heat in a filament creating light. So, that makes it look like a ground, they ground the stereo to the bulb and then the bulb in turn will find ground through the chassis ground in the stereo.
What other aftermarket items have you got wired in?
Anything that is not stock wiring is suspect.

[helibrian]

You should get a spark with everything off and no key because when you open your car door the interior lights go on. Maybe your trunk isnt fully shut and your interior lights are on all the time.Try putting the fuse back in and push the door open switch with your finger to simulate all doors shut then see if the battery sparks. As for the noise I have no idea.

[dfnder]

Good thread, I'm a noob at electrical problem solving and I'm getting some good knowledge outa this :)

[freestyler]

Good thread, I'm a noob at electrical problem solving and I'm getting some good knowledge outa this :)

Well, I'm glad that someone is getting some benefit out of my misery... hehe

[freestyler]

You should get a spark with everything off and no key because when you open your car door the interior lights go on. Maybe your trunk isnt fully shut and your interior lights are on all the time.Try putting the fuse back in and push the door open switch with your finger to simulate all doors shut then see if the battery sparks. As for the noise I have no idea.

Definitely did that... it was a touch cumbersome trying to move around the Van's engine with all the doors close. Would've funny to watch

[freestyler]

You have a cross feed.
Somewhere there has probably been 2 hot leads wired into one load, explaining why the squealy thingy is happening when the dome fuse is pulled and the light switch is on.
The most likely culprit is the stereo. A lot of people use a meter to find a ground, but if they inadvertently meter a grounded bulb it will read as low or no resistance - that's the way bulbs work, low resistance = high amperage and heat in a filament creating light. So, that makes it look like a ground, they ground the stereo to the bulb and then the bulb in turn will find ground through the chassis ground in the stereo.
What other aftermarket items have you got wired in?
Anything that is not stock wiring is suspect.

Out of curiosity and just to make things straight in my brain; 2 hot leads in 1 load can make this squealing noise. I'm 99% certain that this noise is not from the speakers. So would finding the source of this noise might be the location of this miss-wiring? Or is this squeal manifesting itself elsewhere as a result of this rogue circuit? (or can it be both? ...oh, please don't be both...)

[TardisDeli]

The usual stereo requires 2 positives, one controlled by the keyswitch, and one wired direct to the battery. Hence when u pull the fuse you are only half shutting off the stereo. As to the squeal sound, is it coming from dash area or roof light area ? Do u have the ceiling flourescent lights? I have an inductive meter which can tell u exactly how many amps being drawn from battery, which may help to narrow down the trouble shooting areas. We are in Burnaby, near New West, you are welcome to visit, one evening this week after 5:30 pm. Send me a PM Private Message with your phone number (as I read the website but prefer to answer by phone).

Jay

[john n]

I'm interested in hearing what you find.

I think it will be a combination of issues, hopefully none of which will be hard to track down.

[mararmeisto]

Do you have lights in the door panel? The bulb holder in both my doors was quite melted from over-heating of the bulb (some clown had replaced both with a 10W bulb). There may be a short in there. Or, check the wires going out to the door lights, especially in the hinge. If the protective rubber sheild is cracked, the wires inside might be damaged too.

Other suspect would be the radio. Is it an replacement one? These vans seem to have a difficult time 'accepting' a new stereo than the one they were fitted with. Most electrical problems on this forum have worked back to radio.

Might want to check the horn as well: the little diaphram wears out and can either short or make the horn blow all the time (I think it was marsgal42 with that problem).