Evans waterless coolant. Anyone use this?

[Drumster]

I did a lot of reading and spoke at length with the Canadian distributor of Evans and went ahead and ordered a treatment. It's not cheap and it requires not just draing the system first but a thorough flush & removal of virtually all water from the system prior to installation. The flush is sold separately.

The benefits are a one time, no pressure or very low pressure, cooler running, non-toxic, non-corrosive system which lowers emissions, coke build up and fuel consumption and lasts the life of the engine. http://www.evanscooling.com/html/npgben1.htm

Anyone else use this?

[DeliTan]

Just yesterday in the KMS parking lot I bumped into an old guy (well, not that much older than me) who had a PERFECT 51 Studebaker Champion (damn, I shudda taken a pic). He says he restored it for his grandson. I told him I was an orphan and available for adoption...

Anyway, he swears by his Evans coolant.


john

[mararmeisto]

Looks promising.

[Erebus]

I'm rather suspicious. If it is so much better, then OEMs would use it so they could make smaller radiators, etc.

The Evans site claims that the vapourizing of the coolant takes lots of heat, thereby transfering lots of heat from the metal to the coolant. Okay, so they why do they say that their coolant doesn't vapourize as easily. Wouldn't that be a bad thing?

Most engine designers and test engineers are unaware that vapor is in fact being generated and recondensed continuously inside the engine cooling system

Are these guys for real? He knows something that engine designers don't?

Compared to NPG, water vapor from the EGW condenses at a lower temperature and hence is not fully condensed until it is in the radiator. However the temperature of NPG in the cooling system is considerably below its saturation temperature (boiling point), readily condensing NPG vapor back into the liquid locally. Evans has been able to ensure that all NPG vapor generated inside the engine rapidly condenses back into liquid before the coolant leaves the engine.

The only way for vapour to condense is to give up heat to something else, either cooler coolant, or the metal of the engine, or in the radiator. Their coolant cools down before it gets to the rad? Hmm, interesting trick that.

I see snake oil written all over this. It may be better, but can't be that much better. Not enough to justify the price. Keep your regular coolant, make sure the rad isn't clogged, and waterpump and radiator cap are all in good shape, and you should be fine.

[loki]

The only way for vapour to condense is to give up heat to something else

Pressure also will make a vapor condense.

[Erebus]

Pressure also will make a vapor condense.

Forgot that one. And in a closed system, the liquid changing to vapour will increase the pressure, which would change it to liquid, and then it would pick up more heat and change to vapour, and ...

I still have a big problem with what the company claims.

[Drumster]

Marvelous armchair expertize and theorizing guys but I was looking for comments from those who've actually used the product. Personally, I'm holding off judgment until I've done just that; tried it. In the mean time, try to curb your ill-founded negativity. There's a lot of people who swear by this stuff including racers. I'll let the forum know how it goes in my L400 application.
Cheers!

[Chewy]

then there is the worry of cavitation....

[Green1]

I have heard wonderful reviews from people before... and I do gather that it is one of the surest ways of guaranteeing you don't crack a head from overheating. (once normal coolant has vapourized it isn't very good at cooling anymore, so at a certain point it no longer helps much and you pretty much enter a thermal run-away situation)

That said, I think there's a limit to the miracles:

The benefits are a one time, no pressure or very low pressure, cooler running, non-toxic, non-corrosive system which lowers emissions, coke build up and fuel consumption and lasts the life of the engine.

I'll buy cooler running, non-toxic, non-corrosive, and lasts the life of the engine.

I will not believe that it has any actual affect on lowering emissions, or fuel consumption.

So it's a matter of what you are buying it for, cooler running is good, and if that's what you want out of it, I'd say it could be worth it right there. I'm also a big fan of things that never need changing, so that's good too.

But if you're buying it to try to improve your fuel mileage, I suspect you'll be sorely disappointed.

[Drumster]

then there is the worry of cavitation....

"Vapor Pressure: 590 mm of Hg for EGW at 212° F versus 18 mm of Hg for NPG. This is the major reason for the dramatic decrease in cylinder liner and pump cavitation."

[Erebus]

"Vapor Pressure: 590 mm of Hg for EGW at 212° F versus 18 mm of Hg for NPG. This is the major reason for the dramatic decrease in cylinder liner and pump cavitation."

That's a huge difference.

According to http://www.onlineconversion.com/pressure.htm, (granted, this is at 0 deg C, not 100)

590 mm Hg = 11.4 lb/sq in or 0.776 atmosphere
018 mm Hg = 0.35 lb/sq in or 0.024 atmosphere

That would put the vapour pressure below atmospheric pressure. If the coolant is pressured to 2 atmospheres (1 above normal), then either Evans' numbers are way off, or I'm missing something. Can anyone explain?

[danfromsyr]

I'm pretty sure the Evan's Mfg claim to increased economy and even performance is in the nature of cylinder wall HOT SPOTS. created when the combustion fire swirls/leans against one surface more in it's transition from bang to exhaust.
these hot spots far exceed the temps that conventional antifreezes can handle and they boil.
boiled antifreeze creates an insulating air pocket or localized cavitation.
this doesn't allow the heat to dissipate and allows the hot spot to remain.
where on some engines, under some conditions (cause each is unique to some mfg extent) this creates Pre-detonation. the injected fuel under the compression stroke against the hotter surface flashes prior to the Igntion system. and before optimum cylinder timing.

knock created by this retards timing in knock sensative engine management.
where you would gain more/most available mechanical power if the system was not compensating for the pre-ignition circumstance.

The claim by Evan's is that this won't or is less liekly to happen with their coolant (and that it recondenses into itself, I don't know the physics properties) and doesn't allow hot spot cavitation. and continuation of the hot spot.

by allowing the Ign to adjust it's timing as far advanced as possible under management, this will result in more power & more fuel economy. this is why all/most modern cars use knock sensative engine management.

on a non-knock sensative engine management, one would have to know enough about their vehicle, engine, and atmospheric conditions (altitude/load/temp) to manually adjust timing to a now more optimum setting. it is far easier with alittle piezo microphone & ECU to calculate and adjust.

I do not spout this as knowledge, just my understanding of Evan's coolants to be taken in verbatim. and I have not used the product yet, but have been interested & researched it for quite a few years. My Vehicle is a VW Syncro vanagon, where we have a rear engine and front radiator. with some ~40ft of coolant hoses to spring a leak. add in a ~$500 heater core, and my 1st goal is well economy & power but also no/low system pressures to ensure it lasts a much longer time..
Also the VW vanagon has near 5gals of coolant capacity, so I have to be much more sure of the investment. but if some change the XXXX name brand every 2~3yrs to keep corrosion away, I'll have peace of endurance in the product for ~100k miles.. (yes there are other 100k coolants out there).

anyways, I'm not a Delica owner, though I do quite admire them.

Dan Stevens
Syracuse, NY

[Drumster]

Good post Dan. Your understanding of the benefits of using Evans and description of what you'd want to achieve are the same as my own, and I think your assessment of how it works is pretty much dead on.
Cheers!

[DeliTan]

I haven't checked with an installer of this product but I know a little about it.
Propylene glycol is the most common product used in the making of "fog" for the movies. It is also used in small quantities in many of the things you eat and otherwise stick in your mouth and armpits.

Description:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol

MSDS:
www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Propylene_glycol-9927239

It seems that Evans mixes it with a bit of snake oil and sells it for big bucks. They offer it for $1787/drum US in Pennsylvania.
To buy food grade PG locally it costs $170/5 gal or $1332/drum

Might be worth a bit more research...

john

[lrp374]

I talked to the guys @ Peterbuilt about this stuff ( when buying oil filters) and they didn't even know what I was talking about let alone know of any truckers using it.