Shell diesel = noisier engine??

[tonydca]

Just passing the two-month mark with my L400, and as my first diesel, I'm tending to listen hard for any unfamiliar noises or sounds that might spell trouble.

Having fuelled up at a number of stations around the Lower Mainland, is it just me, or does anyone else's vehicle seem to be noisier on Shell diesel than any of the others? (Husky, PetroCan, ...) Does it contain less Ethanol? More Ethanol? Rendered beef tallow?

I know the engines are especially noisy when cold anyways, but Holy Deafening Diesel, Batman! Sounds like a bag of wrenches for the first minute or so when cold. I pop in some cetane additives at fillup time anyways, but seems to make no difference.

Naturally the easiest thing to do is just stay away, and fill up at the Autogas on Main that pumps B5 (runs quietest on it, nice lube properties from the 5% bio, etc., etc.), but the techie in me would like to know why Shell seems to be so different. Or if I'm just imagining it. Shell's website is cryptically unhelpful...

http://www.shell.ca/home/content/can-en ... er_diesel/

Tony.

[jessef]

I've been using both shell and husky since last summer.

I can't hear any difference.

There is a monster difference between 15w40 and 5w40 engine oil when starting up.

15w40 is LOUD while 5w40 purrs softly in cold temps.

Once warmed up, they're both normal.

[tonydca]

Jeez Jesse - I hate waiting so long for a reply!

Have you noticed any oil consumption differences with the 5W40 vs. 15W40? My first oil change is coming up and I'm thinking seriously about going for the synthetic stuff.

[FalcoColumbarius]

There is no ethanol in diesel ~ that's a gasoline thing. Although I am not completely sure about the L-400s and their idiosyncrasies, one should always wait for the glow plug to cycle before cranking the engine, i.e.; turn ignition on, wait three or so seconds ~ until you hear the second click or the light comes on, then crank the engine. What happens on start up is the Injector Pump dumps more fuel than usual into the cylinder on start up which is why you will see a puff of smoke come from the exhaust when she first starts up.

Next: If she is cold you should warm her up. I presume that the L-400s have a throttle (correct me if I'm wrong), the throttle is a valuable tool for the longevity of your engine. More so than gasoline engines, diesels require warming up. So before you put stress onto the engine, such as speeding up onto the highway, you need to get her up to temperature. If you jump into your van first thing in the morning, immediately crank her over then speed onto the highway without warming her up you will be wondering why these so-called amazing vans are braking down.

The information I get is from mechanics or big rig truck drivers. I learned that the big semis only rev to about 2,200 RPM, which is why they have so many gears. Delicas rev much higher but still one should shift between 2,500 & 3,000 RPM. I rarely exceed three grand.

Regarding fuel: I have found that "Diesel Max" from Mohawk/Husky works best in the Miss Lil' Bitchi. I have used PetroCan and Shell. My experience with Shell is that my mileage went down but I have only used it once. Rule of thumb: Make sure your fuel source is moving fuel. If the diesel sits for long periods in underground tanks it goes stale. Much like if you eat old food you don't get all the nutrients ~ if your van is fuelled with stale diesel she will get a fuel tank ache and suffer from IP burn.

As the 4D56T engine was originally designed to take sulphur diesel, which provides lubricity, one must compensate with fuel additives when using LSD or the most recent ULSD to provide the lubricity that is lost in Ultra Low Sulphur Diesels. I have tried a few, I like "Howes". Some further information sources on fuel:

• http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-effi ... ion105.htm
• http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel1.htm
• http://www.purdue.edu/envirosoft/housew ... rosene.htm
• http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/introduction.html
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetane_number

Another thing to remember is: I am a painter. I am learning more about diesel mechanics and my intentions are good but you should really investigate these things for yourself. There are maybe half a dozen actual diesel mechanics on this website, the rest of us have good intentions... smiles.

Falco.

[jessef]

Switch to synthetic. You can hear the difference immediately.

There is no throttle cable on the L400.

There is a cold-start system which works great in temps below 0c.

[Green1]

Next: If she is cold you should warm her up. I presume that the L-400s have a throttle (correct me if I'm wrong),

You're wrong
None of the delicas post 1994 (including the L300) have a hand throttle.

[coaxial]

I haven't noticed much difference in diesel from anywhere in vancouver except for b50 bio which lasts 1/2 as long, and the occasional bad batch from various places. Chevron most recently.

I use whatever additive I have around, every couple tanks at least. Ranging from Optilube XPD high-end fancy imported stuff to 2stroke oil. Not much difference, just keeping things lubricated.

In my l300 I run 15w40 quaker state "4x4" heavy duty semi-synthetic most of the year, 5w40 full synthetic duron in the chilly months. As Jesse says things are a bit quieter.. I notice it a bit going from semi-synth to full synth. What I really notice with the 5w40 is the van will start if I go to a -30 climate and park outside. Nada with 15w40.

The other thing I've been noticing the past few weeks is on the 5w40 I've got a decent oil leak.. seems to the usual turbo leak and now also where the alternator connects to the sump? I'll replace and tighten some things down there (hoses) soon. Normally I get a couple drops of oil overnight with the thicker stuff, I'm getting a 4" puddle though sometimes these days

Sorry to stray off topic from diesel. I recommend using any diesel, look for a popular station that trucks use maybe. Add some additive or 2stroke oil to keep things lubed. What part of the engine does the noise seem to come from? Injector pump?

[Golf Cart]

You could pull into a Shell to fuel up and actually be getting Chevron Diesel from California. Load up at Chevron in the praries and chances are its Esso Diesel from Strathcona refinery in Alberta. Esso borrows from Petrocan ( Suncor) at Lake City. All the big producers have exhange agreements in varying degrees. It just depends on source, location, and the time of year.

[Green1]

You could pull into a Shell to fuel up and actually be getting Chevron Diesel from California. Load up at Chevron in the praries and chances are its Esso Diesel from Strathcona refinery in Alberta. Esso borrows from Petrocan ( Suncor) at Lake City. All the big producers have exhange agreements in varying degrees. It just depends on source, location, and the time of year.

While you are correct, my understanding is that they all add their own additives to the fuel (they get delivered "raw" fuel and then add their own "secret ingredients" to it)
This however is something that I'm not entirely clear on...

[danfromvan]

Also, Canada plans to mandate 5% biodiesel at all stations effective September 2010.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6065BU20100108

EU has a 5% requirement effective 1 Jan 2010.

Petrocan already states "may contain 5% biodiesel". No mention of the biodiesel source. The guy at the pump had no idea where it comes from.

[danfromvan]

While you are correct, my understanding is that they all add their own additives to the fuel (they get delivered "raw" fuel and then add their own "secret ingredients" to it)
This however is something that I'm not entirely clear on...

Not always. As you get farther away from major centres, they just pull up and fill the underground tanks and nothing is added. Also, independent station owners (not many left) buy from whoever can deliver, especially in small towns. In northern BC, it's quite common to see a Chevron tanker pull up to a Petrocan station and vice versa.

[madmazda]

I filled up at a shell station the other day and it gave me two choices one with low sulfur and one with more..... I tried the low sulfur and noticed that upon cold start it made a funny noise till it warmed up....I"m going to add some of my two stroke oil I use in my Trials motorcycle and see if that sorts it out till I fill up next

[tonydca]

I filled up at a shell station the other day and it gave me two choices one with low sulfur and one with more..... I tried the low sulfur and noticed that upon cold start it made a funny noise till it warmed up....I"m going to add some of my two stroke oil I use in my Trials motorcycle and see if that sorts it out till I fill up next

I read online (so it must be true ) that diesels have greater clearances in the cylinders due to them being more thermally efficient and having less heat go into the block than gas engines. Hence the pistons heat up relatively quicker than the block, and if they were too tight, they might seize before the rest of the engine warms up.

This is supposedly why they are noisier when colder, but I'm wondering what if any fuel additives bring to the party.

And WRT and earlier post about an engine leak; my old Toyota burns much more 10w30 than 10w40 (Toyota recommends the latter for normal WetCoast temperature ranges) so wondering if the same were true for these engines.

Of course, if it's burning, at least you know oil is moving around in the engine...

[jessef]

Coaxial

Turbo shaft seals leaking is common on 2.5's. Thinner 5w40 will make it more pronounced.

Banjo bolt/copper washer from alternator sump to block. Check there and replace the copper washer and/or tighten.

[FalcoColumbarius]

Next: If she is cold you should warm her up. I presume that the L-400s have a throttle (correct me if I'm wrong),

You're wrong
None of the delicas post 1994 (including the L300) have a hand throttle.

What a drag.

...Sorry to stray off topic from diesel. I recommend using any diesel, look for a popular station that trucks use maybe. Add some additive or 2stroke oil to keep things lubed. What part of the engine does the noise seem to come from? Injector pump?

The part where the flamingo dancers with the castanets are...

Your not off topic ~ diesel is an oil, anyway. I use "Lubro Moly" 15/40.

Falco.