Wheel, Rim and suspension advice... your $.02!

[supa_fox]

Ok, Here is my Dilemma...
Time for some new tires, trying to go an all weather style from Nokian: 2 options WRG-2 SUV or the new Rotiiva (replaced the Vatiiva)
I am running 30x9.5 currently and to get close to that size I have to get a different rim for the WRG-2
So, first question
stick with stock rims and get the Rotiivas (they look pretty burly) or head up to a 16" rim and get the wrgs. Plan C, get bigger rims and Rotiivas on them. Aside from aesthetics, any reason to go to a bigger rim?

Second question,
While I am at it, the suspension has gone pretty soft, lots of roll around corners and if I throw anything in the back she sags down pretty good. Other than that, ride is fine.
If I am changing the tires, is it time to do the suspension as well? if so, new springs/shocks, or lift er up a bit with one on the 2" kits from jfarsang (if available)

wrg2s with rims ~2K
rotiivas, same rims ~1200
rotiivas, new rim ~ 2200
suspension/lift ~?

Thoughts? Best bang for the bucks...

[nxski]

If you want to replace the suspension then I would go with a lift as well (unless you're opposed to it)
With the lift on I would get rims with a wider offset / rim but stick with a smaller diameter (15"). For off-roading purposes the smaller rims will allow you to air down a bit more without worry.

I know this doesn't narrow down your choices much but with enough input from others hopefully you can choose the right combo. I also have no opinions on the tires as I have never used either one.

Good luck...

[EnviroImports.com]

$.02 , ok ,I will chime in about suspension upgrades, I put mid 80s toyota axels under an L300 about 4? years ago, the toyota solid front axel was such a no brainer for the swap as their is Scads of them around the junk yards, they are super easy to get parts for and can be rebuilt in a couple hours once you figure out the mystery of the birfield joint lol. put the leaf springs over the axel in the back, and a 5 link suspension in the front, last I heard it was somewhere up in northern Alberta.
for about $500 you can pick up both front and rear axels, rebuild the axels, new bearings, diff fluid, new felts in the birfs, and new brakes, about another $400
you get a 4" lift , Much stronger axels, legendary toyota reliable suspension , the most capable delica on the board for 4x4 capabilities , Everythings better with a solid front axel.
so maybe $.03 worth

[jessef]

The 2" suspension kits I have are great but if your rear springs are sagging considerable and/or cannot hold any additional weight in the rear, I would suggest to get a new set of coils. If you still want the 2" of lift, then the balljoint spacers in the front and swaybar/brake booster spacers will work with uprated springs.

SAS is the way to go but it's much more complicated and quite an undertaking as you're modding the frame.

I'm not knocking it. I would love one. Very much

[EnviroImports.com]

SAS is the way to go but it's much more complicated and quite an undertaking as you're modding the frame.
I'm not knocking it. I would love one. Very much

Yes it sure was an indepth job, I wont do another one for a customer, it was more of a "sure it can be done for the right money job" but it still was alot more work than others I've done,
I had a set of 404 unimog axels I wanted to put on my LWB L400 but I dident have the time and the axels ended up sold for a compition crawler down in nevada,
however I dident mod the frame, I made every thing to bolt on with grade 8's , the only mods I would say was drilling a few holes and miging in some sleeves

[supa_fox]

Thanks guys,
I will preface this with the idea that this is more about the tire/rim choice than the suspension
ie. eventuality of a lift would influence tire size, tire style/size would influence rim,,, gotta start with the tires, but that could force me to do the rims/suspension earlier... so where to start!?

@jfarsang, do you have the 2" lift kits available? my rear is saggy, but not terrible. I have about 0 knowledge on suspension issues, can you explain a bit more on doing the lift vs replacing springs vs doing both. I would like the extra 2" and have read a few posts on how it stiffens the ride up, do I need to do springs as well?
@nxski, good stuff, will the stock rims I have now do for a while and upgrade later on? any effect of 16/17" over 15 on street/highway driving most my offroading is pretty easy forestry roads, and a few forays into the ghost valley (near calgary) but its pretty mellow
@EnviroImports, unimog axels.... madmax would be proud ;)

Cheers guys, thanks for the knowledge so far!

[nxski]

You'll feel the road more with a larger rim size but it doesn't make a big difference on the road. It will make a noticeable difference on forestry roads though.
I find the van looks a little funny with stock tires and a lift but other than being a tiny bit more top-heavy it's not really an issue. I had my lift put on with the intent of driving on the stock wheels for a year. The only reason I changed them was because I was able to do a swap with my truck.

[jwfchase]

bilstein shocks with tightened torsion bars!

[jessef]

Thanks guys,
I will preface this with the idea that this is more about the tire/rim choice than the suspension
ie. eventuality of a lift would influence tire size, tire style/size would influence rim,,, gotta start with the tires, but that could force me to do the rims/suspension earlier... so where to start!?

@jfarsang, do you have the 2" lift kits available? my rear is saggy, but not terrible. I have about 0 knowledge on suspension issues, can you explain a bit more on doing the lift vs replacing springs vs doing both. I would like the extra 2" and have read a few posts on how it stiffens the ride up, do I need to do springs as well?
@nxski, good stuff, will the stock rims I have now do for a while and upgrade later on? any effect of 16/17" over 15 on street/highway driving most my offroading is pretty easy forestry roads, and a few forays into the ghost valley (near calgary) but its pretty mellow
@EnviroImports, unimog axels.... madmax would be proud ;)

Cheers guys, thanks for the knowledge so far!

The reason why the lift stiffens up the ride (less body roll) is due to tightening the tension on the torsion bars. I see you're in cowtown. jaggedfish is there too. If you hook up with him, you can see/feel the difference between a stock and lifted ride.

There is no 'need' to upgrade your tires/rims. The 2" lift on an L400 suits the stock tires size just fine. If you look in the parts & supplies under the 2" L400 kits, you'll see some examples of L400's sporting stock size tires with the lift. People normally do the lift to gain extra clearance from the ground up to the body and to eliminate the side to side body roll on the highway/offroad.

[supa_fox]

@jfarsang I read your post outlining the suspension effects. Brilliant, thank you for that.
Its starting to make more sense to me.
I am thinking of going up to 265/75r16 possibly 17. so essentially an inch wider and taller. The new nokian Rotiivas look pretty killer for all year round use so I am getting more stoked on the idea of those. Not sure on rim width, 7 or 8" ?
Also thinking of going to a negative offset, stock is 25mm? I was looking at a rim with 0 or -6mm. puts the wheels about 2.5" further (-6) out, so on mine, I think it would be about an 1.5" out of the wheel well, maybe a bit more. Is that to much change to the offset?

Also, wondering about tightening the torsion bars in the front and getting some refreshed springs
will these work without other modification?
http://www.delicashop.com/p/69/Coils--- ... -duty.html
A stiffer spring would be nice for the lwb I have

then, come spring a lift kit and I think I would be pretty happy with where she is at

Any feedback? I am still learning about the suspension stuff, so If I have something bass ackwards let me know

[jessef]

If you put in new springs that lift the rear over 1" from stock, you will be stretching both the sway bar links and the rear brake bias booster spring too much, causing strain on the sway bar links and excessive wear on the rear brakes.

You can lift the front up to 3" inches by cranking the torsion bars but then you will be out of alignment correction specs and the upper control arms will be riding on the body frame.

The formula to lift the front/rear is as follows :

Rear : for each 1" inch suspension lift up to 2" inches-
- lower 1" sway bar bracket at body
- raise 1" brake bias booster bracket at axle
*more than 2" inches requires an adjustable panhard bar to center the axle

Front : for each 1" inch suspension lift up -
- from 1-2" inches space upper control arm (1" balljoint spacer)
- from 2-3" inches spacer upper control arm (1"balljoint spacer + 1"subframe spacer)

[supa_fox]

Alright, Let me see if I am keeping up with you
I can replace the springs with normal sized ones (like these ones http://www.delicashop.com/p/67/Coils--- ... -duty.html they only come in medium duty however, or the ironman ones. havent found any of the lovells online as readily available as the other 2)
Then, come spring, use the spring spacers in your kit to do the lift with instead of a longer spring?
One question, should I just hold off and get the longer springs when I am ready for the lift? does the spaced oem size spring behave the same as a longer one? Would spacing the medium duty spring preload it and make it behave like a heavier one?

How am I looking on the offset, is that to big of a change in terms of stress on the system?
Wider Tire is ok, from 245ish to 265?
Choosing a 16" rim only because its the only one I could find with the offset I am looking for

Cheers!

[jessef]

I can replace the springs with normal sized ones (like these ones http://www.delicashop.com/p/67/Coils--- ... -duty.html )
Then, come spring, use the spring spacers in your kit to do the lift with instead of a longer spring?

Correct

One question, should I just hold off and get the longer springs when I am ready for the lift? does the spaced oem size spring behave the same as a longer one? Would spacing the medium duty spring preload it and make it behave like a heavier one?

Not sure. The Ironman springs are not as 'stiff' as the Lovell's and they will sag with a heavy load. The Lovell's you will need to cut them physically as they are not 'exactly' the same shape (ends) as the stock springs.

There is no pre-load when placing the lift spacers between the frame/top spring perch. Just lifting the body away from the top of the spring. It does not change the spring characteristics.

[patches]

I stumbled upon this post and learned a lot. However, I have a 1990 Pajero 2.5 Mk1, and I'm having trouble finding out if the suspension crosses over from the L300? Does anyone know if they are the same?

All 4 shocks and rear springs need replacing. I made the mistake of trying to simply measure my rear mitsu shocks and buy the same size Monroes. So basically I threw $100 in the garbage and ended up worse off than before.

I can trade out my shocks fine, but may need a shop to do the coils. Should I go to CVI for that?

I would also take the advice of getting the 2'' lift while I'm at it, but that may limit me from accessing my parking garage.

Thank you

[macro]

Rear : for each 1" inch suspension lift up to 2" inches-
- lower 1" sway bar bracket at body
- raise 1" brake bias booster bracket at axle
*more than 2" inches requires an adjustable panhard bar to center the axle

Front : for each 1" inch suspension lift up -
- from 1-2" inches space upper control arm (1" balljoint spacer)
- from 2-3" inches spacer upper control arm (1"balljoint spacer + 1"subframe spacer)

From what I understood, going above 2" necessitated a fair bit of work to the suspension, but if you don't go any higher than 3" all you would need is an adjustable ph bar and subframe spacer? That's pretty tempting... I've found a lot of info on this site about 2" lifts, anyone have insight into going a little higher? ie: Blueberry style?