Delica Canada | Mitsubishi Van Club

WhoGotTheFunk wrote:Hi there, just wondering if there's any update to Drumsters install? I'll hopefully be getting an L400 within the year and am very curious if he's getting very good fuel economy with the set up?

I hope it did not blow up on him! He has not posted on the forum at all since September. I am interested in the long term prognosis.

If you search the Oz forum for "gas injection" you will find many reports. Long time users found no economy over any other fuel. The advantage lay in that the propane costs less than diesel, so you are offsetting some of your diesel use with cheaper propane. So it does cost less to operate. Of course the cost is you have two fuels to deal with, and too much propane used will damage your engine.

Any long term updates?

Update. Yeah, I haven't been around the forum too much.
Propane injection is still running fine and no; engine has not blown up!

I did muck around with some settings at one point and somehow managed to stop the propane from flowing. I couldn't figure out exactly what was wrong. At that point I invested in a “Mightyvac Silverline” on sale at Lordco. It allows you to measure or apply either vacuum or pressure. It's really helpful to have this for setting the level of boost at which you want propane to start flowing as well as simply checking that the system is working; really handy. This is what I previously referred to as “special equipment” when I didn't really understand what it was all about. I've become very familiar with this propane injection system and am very happy with it. It's all a lot easier to work with and adjust than I originally thought.

Evidently the EcoShot people in Chilliwack are no longer around but these kits are available online AFAIK and Arie a Excell Installations in Langley has become familiar with mine. Actually, I installed the regulator etc, he installed the tank , wiring and fill valve along with final inspections.

I've turned the “start time” down quite low so propane starts flowing at 3 or 4 lbs boost pressure; so now it kicks in much earlier.

We took a trip down the Oregon coast last Fall and a second one down through central California. I was enjoying the R&R rather than dwelling on costs or mileage etc. Although I recorded all the fill ups etc, I don't have the numbers handy. As I recall I was getting well beyond 600 km on a tank of diesel and filling the propane about once every four diesel fills. That's just from memory so I'll check that later and confirm.

Bottom line: this is still the best mod I've done on the Deli – along with the dual bypass oil filter. At a mere 98,000 kms he beast is still running very strong and I have no regrets about this conversion or any of the other mods I've done. The whole thing is working great!

does the powershot 2000 still work with non turbo 4d56?........please say yes...f#ckin hills....

punkrawker wrote:does the powershot 2000 still work with non turbo 4d56?........please say yes...f#ckin hills....

Not likely.

The way propane fumigation works is by adding fuel -propane- to what you would call a "lean" engine. And a diesel with a turbo always runs lean if the engine is in good order.

This means that there is more air in the air-to-fuel ratio, and with that extra air, that propane can burn giving extra power. Sort of the same effect if you modified the diesel injectors to spray more fuel in during their cycle.

Since you don't have a turbo, you don't have that extra air (boost) to spare.

fml........so pretty much without installing a turbo to a non turbo engine, no point on adding propane injection.....what about adding a non Mitsubishi turbo to the set up? I keep hearing how this is pretty much where mitsu shit the bed, with poor designs, few bearings etc. is there anything a guy can do to get more zip outta these gutless squirrel powered engines?

punkrawker wrote:fml........so pretty much without installing a turbo to a non turbo engine, no point on adding propane injection.....what about adding a non Mitsubishi turbo to the set up? I keep hearing how this is pretty much where mitsu shit the bed, with poor designs, few bearings etc. is there anything a guy can do to get more zip outta these gutless squirrel powered engines?

You can't do much to a non-turbo or supercharged diesel. They just don't get the air required to breathe well. You could add a turbo, that might help a tiny bit, but you would also need to change the fuel injection and possibly the timing. This would increase the power to be sure, but it would also likely destroy the engine. Engines are designed to handle a certain amount of load; you can increase that - but only to a point.

A snorkel as an air ram would probably help. A conservative turbo boost might help too - as long as you don't turn the pressure up too much.

At the end of the day you probably need an engine swap.

well I am just trying to explore my options, I am NOT looking to make this into a 1/4 mile killer by any stretch, just looking for anything to to end shifting between 3-4-5 just to make some hills on hiways. I have been reading alot about the powershot 2000 system and from what I keep reading, guys with turbos on their d456 engine who have added this system on their delica love this mod. one guy put this system on his over 3 years ago and its still running flawlessly on the same engine, no rebuild etc. If you have it dialed down low, then you are just pretty much burning up the rest of the unburnt diesel, engine runs cooler, better mpg and obviously increase in squirrel power....they all pretty much seem to say the same thing....DO NOT crank up the boost unless you have a spare 4d56 laying around and/or you really like rebuilding heads....so far I don't fall into either category. the previous owner on my delica did pretty much F.A for up keep. I have done an oil change, replace fuel filter and air filter, she revs better, seems to get better mpg and way less smoke unless I have the pedal down. so I am going over the engine and replacing what needs to be done to end leaks and get overall better performance and longevity out of the delica.

hey Mr. Fibble I have a question for you then, have you modified your injectors? is it something relatively easy/inexpensive to do? Sorry for the newb questions....I am way more experienced in building homes than engines but I am very much a hands on learner kinda guy and find myself loving this slow ass van more than I had originally anticipated.

punkrawker wrote:hey Mr. Fibble I have a question for you then, have you modified your injectors? is it something relatively easy/inexpensive to do? Sorry for the newb questions....I am way more experienced in building homes than engines but I am very much a hands on learner kinda guy and find myself loving this slow ass van more than I had originally anticipated.

I have not, no, but then I am not the original author of this thread. Then again, propane fumigation does not modify your injectors.

I have no desire to modify my injectors though - that is a lot of work for a little gain. You can do a few things like increasing the fuel output or upping the boost (air).

In your case you have a naturally aspirated Diesel engine. Those just don't produce much power, and are the entire reason nearly every Diesel engine made in the last 10 years is turbocharged.

I don't know much about your van, but I would suspect that the best power producing mod you could do is put on an air ram style snorkle.

punkrawker wrote:well I am just trying to explore my options, I am NOT looking to make this into a 1/4 mile killer by any stretch, just looking for anything to to end shifting between 3-4-5 just to make some hills on hiways. I have been reading alot about the powershot 2000 system and from what I keep reading, guys with turbos on their d456 engine who have added this system on their delica love this mod. one guy put this system on his over 3 years ago and its still running flawlessly on the same engine, no rebuild etc. If you have it dialed down low, then you are just pretty much burning up the rest of the unburnt diesel, engine runs cooler, better mpg and obviously increase in squirrel power....they all pretty much seem to say the same thing....DO NOT crank up the boost unless you have a spare 4d56 laying around and/or you really like rebuilding heads....so far I don't fall into either category. the previous owner on my delica did pretty much F.A for up keep. I have done an oil change, replace fuel filter and air filter, she revs better, seems to get better mpg and way less smoke unless I have the pedal down. so I am going over the engine and replacing what needs to be done to end leaks and get overall better performance and longevity out of the delica.

I should add, a lot of the stuff you read about propane fumigation just isn't true. For example, that the propane is a "catalyst" and it burns more diesel.

Not true. In no way is propane a catalyst in a Diesel engine. A catalyst is a specific chemical that assists a chemical reaction, and propane does NOT do this despite what people say.

What propane DOES do is burn with transparent exhaust. So, if you add extra propane to your engine, you are, in effect adding more fuel. That is pretty good. But what people see as the advantage is no black smoke out the tailpipe. This isn't because it burns the diesel better. (A properly running diesel is amazingly efficient with fuel, in the order of 99.9% of the diesel burns) this is because under hard acceleration, boost (air) lags behind demand, and some of the diesel does not burn. Propane will not help this at all - the problem is a lack of air, not a lack of fuel. But, propane is transparent, so with the added fuel, if it goes out the tailpipe burned or unburned you don't see black smoke because it REPLACES some of the diesel for a given load on the engine.

You can adjust fumigation to get you more power. This DOES work - as long as you have enough extra air to burn all the fuel (propane and diesel) in the engine. However, regardless of what extra fuel you add to the engine, as you increase power, beyond a certain point you will cause damage to your engine.

Given engineering rules of thumb there is a 10-20% margin of overhead your engine can probably handle. Run too close to that unknown edge though, and parts start to break.

In the case of fumigation, you are better off using it for fuel savings costs than for a total power gain, especially in light of your engine model.

There is a thread here on the UK Pajero forum about adding a turbo to your very engine:

http://www.pocuk.com/forums/viewtopic.p ... ec972294dc