Delica Canada | Mitsubishi Van Club

Rising Sun Auto Import wrote:

CVI wrote:Hi Steven,
Just a clarification, Is it a 4D56 Hyundai injectors or what, may I ask, are you installing on the 4M40 engine ??
Thanks and best regards,
Butch

Hi Butch,
That is absolutely Hyundai OEM injectors for 4D56 , because Hyundai does not make 4M40.
We have installed them to numerous customer’s L400, one pajero2800cc in Kelowna, some of my stock and my L400 LWB.
I have seen lots of power increase and fuel efficiency from my stock.If you want to see, pls drop by on your way home.

Actually I don’t trust ultra sonic cleaning for 15-20 years old injectors here at all, and don’t like to rebuild them at higher price from local IP shop.
We had a technical assistance last Dec/2011 from Hyundai IP technician when we got an enhanced IP rebuilt skill and all related parts, who says no problem for mechanical Mitsubishi injection pump.
Pls keep in mind Hyundai & Mitsubishi have shared IP/engine technology since 1990 and nowadays Hyundai led Mitsubishi in all auto tech and part supply.

Thanks for your concern.

Steven

Steven,
do you have any numbers regarding this statement?
usually a power increase and fuel efficiency do not go hand in hand when changing only a fueling component. and as it has been stated, by replacing the injector with one one of a different breaking pressure will definately change your IP timing. let alone the fuel delivery volume. please post up some specifications and numbers so we can compare.

Also why do you not trust ultrasonic cleaning. how many injectors have you sent in for cleaning and what were the results? what company did you use?

can you confirm the injection pump is a mitsubishi pump or made by another company?

this is what been doing and using back home for long time.
you cannot just mix it up together. the fuel pressure and other thing.
hyundai and mitsubishi share only on 4d56 engine and ip,
but not 4m40 engine, been in korea 2 year ago and ask hyundai mobis if the injector and nozzle are the same.
they say they are not.
hope this clarrify this injector and nozzle tip topic.
maybe u can put this 4d56 injector to your 4m40 tempoary but then dont know what consequenses is coming
from breaking or destroying your engine internally.
be careful to those who used mitsubishi 4d56 injector or hyundai oem 4d56 injector to your 4m40
cheers;
mardy

Hi Reza,
PM sent.

A large number of posts that were added this topic have now been removed from the site.

Regrettably, several members chose to "hijack" this thread for their advertising-related / dealer-criticism / general whining purposes, and the key individuals involved are being assigned warnings.

Please note that three warnings issued to any user within a 365-day period will result in the user's account being deactivated.

For those who feel that they may have received a warning unfairly, if you see future threads going "sideways" in a negative way, please report the threads but DO NOT get yourself drawn into the discussion. If a block of posts needs to be removed from the site, we do so indiscriminately (we simply don't have the time or patience to apportion blame) If you choose to continue posting to such a thread, don't complain to us if you receive a warning.

Mark you have a PM

Rising Sun Auto Import wrote:That is absolutely Hyundai OEM injectors for 4D56 , because Hyundai does not make 4M40.
We have installed them to numerous customer’s L400, one pajero2800cc in Kelowna, some of my stock and my L400 LWB.
I have seen lots of power increase and fuel efficiency from my stock.

Just because Hyundai does not make the 4M40 engine does not make it right to use Hyundai 4D56 parts in a 4M40.

With regards to the injectors, the cracking pressures are different. There is the possibility of injection pump premature wear (working harder to keep up with the lower cracking pressure of the 4D56 injector in the 4M40) and damage in the long run by doing this without modifying the injection pump.

Power increase and fuel efficiency is not related to installing a lower pressure rated Zexel nozzle. It's the opposite. The injection pump is compensating for the lower pressure that can result in lower fuel economy and power.

On a 4M40, to match the lower cracking pressure of the 4D56T nozzle, the timing would have to be advanced beyond the specified number by Mitsubishi. I cannot find any Mitsubishi documentation that shows this is acceptable. Will get some feedback from the other forums to confirm as well.

Different pressure nozzle/injectors can be used for upgrade purposes. As an example, with Nissan TD's there are different spec aftermarket high psi injectors that are used in place of the OEM's when upgrading the vehicle to a stage 2/3 however they must be accompanied with the correct injection pump output (IP is modified/stage 2,etc..)

Over in the Uk we approach the problem in this way:
If you have a 4D56, then you buy oem injectors for a 4D56 or have yours renozzled and calibrated.
If you have a 4m40 with a mechanical pump, then you buy oem injectors for a 4m40 with a mechanical pump or have yours renozzled and recealibrated.
If you have a 4m40 with an electric pump, then you buy oem injectors for a 4m40 with an electric fuel pump.
All three are different from each other and designed for the specific engine they're going in and all are around the same price.
What's the point in doing anything of this any differently?

Diver wrote:All three are different from each other and designed for the specific engine they're going in and all are around the same price.
What's the point in doing anything of this any differently?

This dealer specializes in Hyundai parts from Korea. They are less expensive than the equivalent or similar OEM Mitsubishi parts from Japan. There is an apparent gap in price, however in this case, price is irrelevant as the two engines use different parts.

We are waiting to see what this dealer will produce to show the power and fuel economy increase from this modification on a technical level and what injection pump/timing modifications were needed to compensate for the lower cracking pressure of the different nozzles combined with baseline and longevity tests.

Ah, it's a price difference thing. Big difference? Over here it cost me £100 ($160) to have mine done recently. It was a postal exchange service. You receive your re-nozzled and calibrated injectors through the post including new washers. You change them over then post your old ones back which get refurbed for the next person. Does no-one over here offer a similar system?
I should think that Hyundai injectors may be of use to the 4D56 owners, but this injector should not be used in the 4M40. When the 4M40 engine was developed, i'm sure that if an injector that was already on the shelf was suitable it would have been used. There's even enough of a difference between the mechanical pump and the electronic pump on the 4M40 to warrant different injectors.
It might well work with wrong injectors in, but it won't properly. And using them long-term might prove to be false economy. We've all heard of people fitting the wrong spark plugs in gas cars and it working fine right? Right up until the piston ends up with a giant hole in it.....
Bottom line. If Mitsubishi could use the same injector in three different applications, they would. The fact that they don't means there's a reason.

CVI wrote:Just to help out in this discussion. Our Diesel Calibration workshop in Manila doesn't recommend changing or altering injector nozzles with a different specification other than the original specs and type of injector recommended by the manufacturer. Here are a few differences on specs between the two injectors...

Breaking Pressure:
4D56 - 12,000-13,000 Kpa, or 120 - 130 Kg/cm3
4M40 - 15,000-16,000 Kpa, or 150-160 Kg/cm3

Take note that these differences will alter the injection timing. The fuel deliveries are also different between the two.

Long term effects of this could affect engine durability.

Just a bit of caution.

You might have missed there are two different injectors that were used in L300 ( 4D56T ) based on manufacture’s year.
 1986/4 – 1994/5 ( MD103301 ) ; 12,000-13,000 kpa or 120-130kg/cm3
 1994/6 – 2004/4 ( MD196607 ) ; 15,000-16,000 kpa or 150-160kg/cm3

We know part mumber for 4M40 injector is ME200204.

MD196607 ( late 4D56, currently available in Korea ) and ME200204 ( mechanical 4M40 ) all have same injection spray angle degree ( 10 ), same throttle type nozzle and same holder type (screw on ) and same breaking power ( 15,000-16,000kpa, 150-160kg/cm3, 2133-2276psi ).

So we should not use new high-tech Hyundai injectors to 4M40 by the reason of different engine?

Hyundai Korea still make 4D56 engines ( Mitsubishi stopped 4D56 production at 2004 ) for numerous high technology diesel vehicles ( porter2, bongo3,, starex, libero ) and good advanced IP/injectors are continuously developed and supplied by Doowon Engineering ( Bosch joint ).

MardyDelica wrote: you cannot just mix it up together. the fuel pressure and other thing.
hyundai and mitsubishi share only on 4d56 engine and ip,
but not 4m40 engine, been in korea 2 year ago and ask hyundai mobis if the injector and nozzle are the same.
they say they are not.
hope this clarrify this injector and nozzle tip topic.
maybe u can put this 4d56 injector to your 4m40 tempoary but then dont know what consequenses is coming
from breaking or destroying your engine internally.
be careful to those who used mitsubishi 4d56 injector or hyundai oem 4d56 injector to your 4m40
cheers;
mardy

[COMMENT REMOVED BY ADMIN FOR SITE RULE VIOLATION]

Steven

oh my got! steven
that's a counter-punch !

can i buy some?
give me a good deal...

Rising Sun Auto Import wrote:Hyundai does not make 4M40

So we should not use new high-tech Hyundai injectors to 4M40 by the reason of different engine?

You are correct on both counts.

cm2 is the psi designation, not cm3
timing ATDC is set different
torque specs are different on union & retaining nuts
part numbers are different
Injection pump fuel delivery is different
engines (output) are different

We've had the L400 4M40 engine in Canada for only 2 years. Experimenting with different nozzles can be perceived as premature when there is no documentation or indication that the Hyundai 4D56T injector you are referencing is compatible with the Mitsubishi 4M40 engine.

Mitsubishi 4M40 service manual does list the 4D56T injector as a compatible part - http://www.mitsubishi-motors.kiev.ua/Ma ... 09/11A.pdf

Two valid technical questions you perhaps skipped over and did not answer:

Why are you not using the intended injector listed in the service manual by Mitsubishi for the 4M40 engine in the L400?

Will you provide data/numbers to show your power and fuel economy increase over OEM Mitsubishi 4M40 injectors vs. the 4D56T Hyundai injectors you are using?

Jesse,
if the break pressure numbers and spray patterns are the same and they thread in the hole then i dont see there being any issues as the timing and ip pressure shouldn't be affected compared to OEM. if the specs are the same it would be like comparing Bosch spark plugs to NGK for the same application.

regarding the performance boost, I think Steven typed a bit quicker that he meant to and the answer didnt come out right.

Been reading this forum.... So far the best information seems to come from Steven... Good info man...

TK

tinykiss wrote:Been reading this forum.... So far the best information seems to come from Steven... Good info man...

TK

Tim, do you have results to post with Hyundai 4D56T injectors in your L400? How much mileage have you logged.. how are the nozzles.. how is the IP..

Reza, there is a variation large enough to warrant complaints in the past years about the longevity of one manufacturer compared to another for both plugs and nozzles. ie. 4M40 nozzles from China lasted 4 months. Never again.

Given that over in UK, Australia and Russia, no one has heard of anyone using Steven's Hyundai 4D56T injectors in a 4M40 L400/Paj engine, I take into consideration 15+ years of global experience over less than 2 years of a dealer who is experimenting.

Without data to back up longevity and engine testing, this thread will go around in circles.