4 Wheel Drive

[nvanadm]

Another 4WD question...maybe two

I know you shouldn't drive in 4WD unless you actually need it, but what if it's winter and the roads are slippery and you are just driving straight without any wheels slipping...

Is it bad to leave it in 4WD for security eventhough it is actually slick but you are not slipping?

Might be a dumb question, but i've been wondering for two winters now.

Also, since my van has LSD does that mean the auto locking hubs are only on the front, or are they only on the front anyway?

[Erebus]

As long as it is at all slippery, there is no problem having it in 4wd -- 4Hi with centre diff locked (L400) or 4Hi (L300).

An LSD only locks the rear diff if there is wheel spin in one of the two rear wheels. Has nothing to do with the front drive system.

Even if it is not slippery, if you are going in a straight line and slow, there isn't really a problem.

[marsgal42]

The driveline will not immediately self-destruct if you get too much traction for a brief period in 4WD. You may experience severe vibration on corners, but won't damage anything unless you do something silly like driving at freeway speeds on dry pavement for an extended period in 4WD.

I've driven Gumdrop at 70 to 80 klicks in 4Hi (on gravel roads), but have never needed to shift the transfer case at such speeds. In 4WD a Delica has that distinctive sure-footed AWD feel.

...laura

[Green1]

I've driven Gumdrop at 70 to 80 klicks in 4Hi (on gravel roads), but have never needed to shift the transfer case at such speeds. In 4WD a Delica has that distinctive sure-footed AWD feel.

Due to amazing government planning of some of the roads around here (gravel-paved-gravel-paved, etc) I have shifted back and forth between 4hi and 2hi frequently at speeds of over 80km/h works just as smoothly at 80 as it does at 8. (as always, make sure you are travelling in a straight line when shifting, and let off the pedal.)

[patty]

For some reason I have been under the impression that when in 4wd-hi, you shouldn't exceed 60 kph. Now I know thats OK, which is good for my upcoming ski trips to Smithers and Powder King. Now Im just wondering what the highest speed 4wd can handle (I am aware about the traction and all that jazz. I mean top speed with shit conditions), and what the RPMs would be at. My last drive to Purden on Saturday I stayed around 65 kph not in 4wd, because I thought it couldn't do that speed. Either way I wont be rippen down the highway in crappy conditions, I just want to make sure Im not destroying the van.

Another side questions, Whats a good recommended weight for sand bags to throw in the back of the deli?

Thanks

[Erebus]

Now Im just wondering what the highest speed 4wd can handle (I am aware about the traction and all that jazz. I mean top speed with shit conditions)

Any speed you can safely drive, you can safely drive in 4WD. Conditions will be the limit. I've done over 100 in 4WD in both Delica and Subaru with no problems.

Another side questions, Whats a good recommended weight for sand bags to throw in the back of the deli?

None. Or if you do, make sure they are secured very thoroughly. If you have an accident, do you want a 20 kg bag of sand heading for your head?

[Green1]

For some reason I have been under the impression that when in 4wd-hi, you shouldn't exceed 60 kph. Now I know thats OK, which is good for my upcoming ski trips to Smithers and Powder King. Now Im just wondering what the highest speed 4wd can handle (I am aware about the traction and all that jazz. I mean top speed with shit conditions), and what the RPMs would be at. My last drive to Purden on Saturday I stayed around 65 kph not in 4wd, because I thought it couldn't do that speed. Either way I wont be rippen down the highway in crappy conditions, I just want to make sure Im not destroying the van.

Another side questions, Whats a good recommended weight for sand bags to throw in the back of the deli?

The 4wd can handle any speed the 2wd can handle, however there are some things to be aware of.
the first of which is that it shouldn't be used on any "grippy" surface, so if there's no slip, don't use it, of course if there IS sufficient slip you should evaluate the conditions as to how fast you can safely drive regardless of 2/4wd (keep in mind that 4wd does NOT help you stop any better!!!)
when switching between 2 and 4wd modes you should always be travelling in a straight line and ease off the accelerator (some people say not to do it above 80kph, I have found no reason not to) (also if switching in to 4wd mode when moving ensure your hubs are already locked or you will get all sorts of expensive noises)
As for RPMs, they will be the same as in 2wd
best weight for sandbags is none at all, they detract from your fuel mileage, if you really feel you need extra weight back there though you can feel free to add some, though I never have.

[patty]

Thanks al lot guys you answered everything perfectly, still a little curious though. Remember that picture i think jesse posted a ways back with the transfer case that was all sorts of messed up? i thought that was from going to fast in 4wd? or was that just grippy condition in 4wd?

[Erebus]

That photo has made the rounds of many websites supposedly destroyed for all kinds of reasons. Nothing of the sort. Can you really imagine that the case of a transfer case is weaker than the tire's grip on the road? I can't. I suspect the real cause of that damage was dropping onto a rock.

[Spearo]

Another side questions, Whats a good recommended weight for sand bags to throw in the back of the deli?

Thanks

1 regular 7-11 bag on each side in the back. I put mine in plastic boxes from Crappy Tire so that I don't get sand everywhere, then if I have to open one to use for traction in the snow, then it's contained.
If you're worried about the weight flying around (besides all the other stuff- bags, camping gear, groceries etc etc) then you could just open them up and pour them into the plastic box.

And rotate the tires every 10k too.
Cheers,
Erik

[jessef]

Thanks al lot guys you answered everything perfectly, still a little curious though. Remember that picture i think jesse posted a ways back with the transfer case that was all sorts of messed up? i thought that was from going to fast in 4wd? or was that just grippy condition in 4wd?

there's a few pictures I posted.

It from driving on the road in 4Low and the driver not realizing it.

There's a few other ones I posted from Montero's (same drivetrain as delica's) that were destroyed because people left them engaged in 4wd on dry surfaces.

If you drive in 4wd in a dead straight line on the road, nothing will happen.

When the vehicle turns, the inner wheels turn faster than the outer wheels. In 4wd part-time mode (what delica's have) the wheels will turn at the same speed causing binding.

Things will begin to bind and lead to breaking.

The cv axles and hubs are usually the first to go unless the transfer case gears bind in which case you'd hear and feel some major grinding.

In the previous threads linked outside websites with very simple to understand basics of how the Delica style (part time 4wd) works and when to/not to use it.

[Erebus]

When the vehicle turns, the inner wheels turn faster than the outer wheels. In 4wd part-time mode (what delica's have) the wheels will turn at the same speed causing binding.

Things will begin to bind and lead to breaking.

The cv axles and hubs are usually the first to go unless the transfer case gears bind in which case you'd hear and feel some major grinding.

In the previous threads linked outside websites with very simple to understand basics of how the Delica style (part time 4wd) works and when to/not to use it.

I really have to disagree with you. Sure it will greatly increase wear on all components, but I don't see how it will break them that quickly. I've had it in 4 locked and turned on a dry bare surface, and experienced the binding. You notice that the vehicle almost stops, then you feel the tires skip and jump to relieve the tension.

Are you really telling us that the CV joints, hubs, and transfer case chain are all weaker than the tire-road coefficient of friction?

[jessef]

They are not weaker when comparing them side by side.

But linked together, there will always be a weak link followed by the next weakest going up to the strongest link.

I am not saying all or any of these components will break and fail. I am simply making people who are unaware that those things can happen.

The only two things I have the first hand experience with this regards are sheared axle shafts front/rear, cracked leading to exploding CV's (balls pop out of the races and the inner/outer race come apart) and auto hub assemblies blowing apart.

All of the above was due to me not maintaining my vehicles properly at the time going back years.

The sheared rear axle shafts were due to bad axle seals which caused the oil to leak out cleaning the grease out of the bearings, bearings to seize taking out the shaft and shearing it at that point. This was the worst of them because my right rear whole axle including the wheel went flying off to the side of the road and I almost rolled into oncoming traffic.

The autohubs exploding were due to me not checking them when I first started driving the Delica.

The exploding CV's (both) were on my Montero and were due to me ignoring cracked CV boots which led to water and dirt getting into the races. Balls got rusty, popped out and the CV housing cracked and pieces went flying.

A prime example. I literally just finished rebuilding the CV's and replacing the boots yesterday on my sister's L400 because they were torn and could have led to CV failure down the road.

Sorry for the poor pics. Poor lighting with cell phone.

TORN CV BOOT with contaminated grease :



REPAIRED CV SHAFT :



Again, this is not meant to freak people out.

With proper maintenance, most of these things can be avoided along with proper use of the 4WD system.

Don't drive on dry/non-slippery surfaces, especially when cornering in 4WD.

I have yet to have a transfercase explode on me, but I've seen it.

We can agree to disagree. I go with what I know and what I've experienced. I call it as I see it and tires to road contact has negligible bearing compared to binding drivelines if driven like that for more than a short period of time.

I can tell you with certainty that if you put your Delica into 4H or 4L and drive around in circles on pavement that one of your CV shafts, driveshaft u-joints, diff gears or transfercase gears will break.

So people, when using 4WD, please just use it on slippery or loose surfaces.

In theory, you can even get by in heavy rain where the roads are very slick but I would not recommend it for the above reasons.

[cbieber]

Hello there, I'm a very new owner of a 1995 Exceed Space Gear and I have read up on this thread about the 4x4 info ...thank you. I have a quick question about the indicator lights for the 4x4. When I engage the 4 high range, the two front wheels light up on the display, the back wheels don't light up. Is that normal? Psyched to learn about this vehicle! Thank you.

[Mr. Flibble]

Hello there, I'm a very new owner of a 1995 Exceed Space Gear and I have read up on this thread about the 4x4 info ...thank you. I have a quick question about the indicator lights for the 4x4. When I engage the 4 high range, the two front wheels light up on the display, the back wheels don't light up. Is that normal? Psyched to learn about this vehicle! Thank you.

The rear lights are usually always lit. Sounds like you have a burned out bulb. When in AWD, you have four green lights lit. When in 4X4 you have the four green wheels lit and the yellow for the center diff lock lit. When you stop, put the van in Neutral, then shift to 4X4 Low Range it looks the same as regular 4X4, but the floor lever is now pushed very far forward and the van positively crawls across the ground.

Low Range should NOT be used at high speeds!

AWD is fine to use in any road condition, but not recommended to use all the time as it will negatively impact fuel economy. 4X4 should not be used on dry pavement, and never for regular driving.

Lever positions for SpaceGear:

1(all the way back rear wheels green) - RWD
2 (a little forward, all wheels green) - AWD
3 (a bit more forward and to the side - green wheels and yellow diff lock light) 4X4
4 (VERY far forward, must be stopped and in "N" to engage, appears same as above) 4X4 Low