Manual hub benefits.

[jessef]

L400's don't have automatic hubs.

They just have a solid flange = permanently locked.

[mac_stang]

.


Is this correct? I was under the impression that the stock L400 hubs are locked "on" all the time. When I shift into 4 wheel drive I thought the front engagement was instantaneous.

Can anyone verify what is the truth.

Cheers, dj

They are always locked, but most transfercases need some sort of forward/backward momentum in order to engage the front drive line(at the case)...cant shift gears on a bike unless ur peddling.

[scohar]

if your stuck in 2wd, and have auto-hubs and switch to 4wd it will still end up locking the front hubs, its the drive (front diff) that locks them not the spinning of the wheel, that only unlocks them. i.e in reverse.

[Adam]

L400's don't have automatic hubs. They just have a solid flange = permanently locked.

OK, so is that the equivalent to driving with manual hubs engaged all the time?

[mac_stang]

if your stuck in 2wd, and have auto-hubs and switch to 4wd it will still end up locking the front hubs, its the drive (front diff) that locks them not the spinning of the wheel, that only unlocks them. i.e in reverse.

we re talkin l400's they are fixed hub's, transfercase is where they engage/disengage.

and yes it is exactly like drivin around with your manual hubs locked.

[scohar]

if your stuck in 2wd, and have auto-hubs and switch to 4wd it will still end up locking the front hubs, its the drive (front diff) that locks them not the spinning of the wheel, that only unlocks them. i.e in reverse.

we re talkin l400's they are fixed hub's, transfercase is where they engage/disengage.

and yes it is exactly like drivin around with your manual hubs locked.

Ah ok then I can see no need for manual hubs on a permahub-flange system, only auto hubs systems. I guess you get less wear when in 2WD, with manual hubs instead of permahubs

Permahub flanges and autohubs all to do with what type of transfer case you have and whether it is part time or full time 4wd (i.e no diff or diff)

[mac_stang]

my experience has put me in the position where, if, i can remove my steer axle components from the "rolling mass" this will decrease decrease the hours on my drive/steer components and make the vehicle roll with less weight to turn(front diff/cv joints) and less weight trying to turn my axle while im trying to break.

[Adam]

Ah ok then I can see no need for manual hubs on a permahub-flange system, only auto hubs systems. I guess you get less wear when in 2WD, with manual hubs instead of permahubs

I definitely get better mileage when on my L400 when my manual hubs are unlocked, and there is a lot less roll resistance. This is somewhat anecdotal, because the only time I unlock the hubs is if I'm going to be driving on the highway for 100km or more. I never end up unlocking the hubs in the city. I guess I should compare a round trip drive to Victoria and back with the hubs locked vs. unlocked.

[mac_stang]

Adam, im happy to here u have seen benefits. I was pretty confident it would be a benefit and i cant wait to get my hubs.


Brad.

[jessef]

The benefits are not on the drivetrain.

They are on the driver/driving circumstance.

The benefits of manual over auto hubs and flanges is that they allow more controlling options when in 4x4 mode.

That is it. I constantly recommend this modification to all Delica owners but I never give them a false pretense that this will give them better fuel economy, nor will it make their parts last longer.

I logged over 67,000 km's on our Pajero (same drivetrain as L400) and a total of 46,000 km's on two L400's.

No difference in fuel economy, acceleration, power gain/loss between the stock flanges and both Aisin and Superwinch manual hubs.

If you are getting a variance when you unlock your manual hubs, then something is dragging your drivetrain.

For this, I am 100% certain based on my mechanical knowledge, experiences and mileage.

If there was a difference like Adam is having on a properly working L400/Pajero drivetrain, then Mitsu would have installed automatic hubs like the L300/first gen Pajero's.

[Adam]

Whoa, I'm not claiming I get better mileage with my manual hubs unlocked vs. locked. I said I only unlock them on highway trips because it feels like there is less roll resistance. The better mileage I experience with the hubs unlocked could easily be explained by highway vs. city driving and have nothing to do with the hubs.

What I wanted to know was is there a benefit at all to driving with the hubs unlocked, if so what is it. I could try doing some controlled highway driving with the hubs locked and unlocked to see if there's a mileage difference, but I haven't done that yet. The L400 just feels different with the hubs unlocked.

[jessef]

Everything I am talkin about revolves around driving in 2WD on paved roads/hard surfaces. Once offroad, everything changes.

On part-time 4WD systems (like L300/4Runner), front hubs unlocked whether its manually done with the manual hubs or mechanically done via automatic hubs, it does make a very noticeable positive impact on front drivetrain wear as well as nets you better fuel economy vs. having the hubs locked which worsens drivetrain wear and fuel economy.

On full-time 4WD (and selectable f/t - p/t like the L400/Pajero) systems, there are no automatic hubs to lock/unlock mechanically. The driveline torque at the front wheels is so minimal when in 2WD mode that there is no negative or positive effect to have the flanges replaced with unlockable hubs. You can't feel the difference. The only time you actuall feel the difference at the steering wheel is when you engage 4H (AWD). Then the steering gets a little heavier and wants to return to center more.

[mac_stang]

its a "FACT" that when u dis-engage the front rolling axle, run on only bearings, you have about 175lbs worth of torque no longer trying to twist ur front axle when braking-thats #1...#2 is that when you remove a revolving "steer" axle, it provides less wear on the front end(if a cv joint only turns on one axis it doesnt provide exceptional resistance, once u turn that wheel...it does)

Every manufacturer thinks they have the ultimate answer to there 4x4, this just happens to be on a "recreation" vehicle that is driven as a novelty in Japan...hence the typically LOW mileage. This is something i have learned as half my family is from Osaka Jpn.

It is just convenience, kinda like that goofy back up mirror, and the chime to tell the driver that it is in reverse!

Brad.

[Adam]

Alright, given everything just said, why would I ever unlock my manual hubs?

[mac_stang]

if un locked, then ur wheels dont turn ur cv shafts,ur cv shafts dont turn ur ring gear,ur ring gear doesnt turn ur pinion gear-which is attached to ur front drive shaft.