Delica Canada | Mitsubishi Van Club

Great discussion. I would say that debate and skepticism at least force ideas into our thought pattern. And then one of us might expand on that idea, collaborate, or dismiss it. We are talking about it aren't we?
Now I am no card carrying member of the scientific community, but I am part of a community of very passionate, smart people who need discussion and debate to enjoy this short time here on earth. The pursuit of new ways to do things, new ways to help our troubled planet are all good. But when I leave this lovely planet of ours I may have to make my next stop Titus, the slush sounds like a nice place to live.
Someone like Wan wants to create or expand on an existing idea or come up with a new one based on old ideas that may not have worked. However any of us want to pursue an invention, or gain knowledge or challenge dogma, I say go for it. We all understand that the certain principles have been proven, tried, tested and true. Physics constrains us and gives us parameters to what is possible but the only way to move forward from here is to be ALWAYS questioning, ALWAYS challenging, ALWAYS evolving. Ideas are seeding all around us, it is how we treat those seeds that matters. No point in crushing the seed before we get to see what pops out of the ground.

Now is this what you are talking about WAN? http://water4gas.com/2books.htm?hop=sashag89 Reading WIKI it seems that Stanley Meyer was an inventor of a perputual motion vehicle. He claimed that he could drive from NY to LA on 83 liters of water. . The fact that it was an obvious scam, violating the first law of thermodynamics, is not as bad as the fact that he duped investors and car dealers who had bought in. Either he was an amazing salesman himself or the investors were a little slow off the mark.
That is all thanks for the forum to discuss and debate.
Sean

sean wrote:Great discussion. I would say that debate and skepticism at least force ideas into our thought pattern. And then one of us might expand on that idea, collaborate, or dismiss it. We are talking about it aren't we?
Now I am no card carrying member of the scientific community, but I am part of a community of very passionate, smart people who need discussion and debate to enjoy this short time here on earth. The pursuit of new ways to do things, new ways to help our troubled planet are all good. But when I leave this lovely planet of ours I may have to make my next stop Titus, the slush sounds like a nice place to live.
Someone like Wan wants to create or expand on an existing idea or come up with a new one based on old ideas that may not have worked. However any of us want to pursue an invention, or gain knowledge or challenge dogma, I say go for it. We all understand that the certain principles have been proven, tried, tested and true. Physics constrains us and gives us parameters to what is possible but the only way to move forward from here is to be ALWAYS questioning, ALWAYS challenging, ALWAYS evolving. Ideas are seeding all around us, it is how we treat those seeds that matters. No point in crushing the seed before we get to see what pops out of the ground.

Now is this what you are talking about WAN? http://water4gas.com/2books.htm?hop=sashag89 Reading WIKI it seems that Stanley Meyer was an inventor of a perputual motion vehicle. He claimed that he could drive from NY to LA on 83 liters of water. . The fact that it was an obvious scam, violating the first law of thermodynamics, is not as bad as the fact that he duped investors and car dealers who had bought in. Either he was an amazing salesman himself or the investors were a little slow off the mark.
That is all thanks for the forum to discuss and debate.
Sean

Very well put, I've always had trouble getting my thoughts and ideas out clearly in text.

I love how passionate some of you get. This whole discussion is absolutely hilarious in it's drama, and ultimately great entertainment.

I definitely have a few things to learn before I can call myself an expert at this, but I have a passion for alternative energy through which I am slowly boosting the mileage of my Delica while many of you squabble about whether this stuff works, or even if it's worth the effort. I say go ahead and pour your money into petrol all you want, into polluting this magnificent awe-inspiring planet... and enjoy the ever increasing prices. I'll be enjoying a vehicle that purrs like a kitten and just goes and goes on one tank.

For those that have less to prove and fewer judgment calls to make (especially without knowing from experience)... for those who simply enjoy helping rather than bashing or insinuating that someone is stupid for trying something new or unheard of... I have a few questions, and I actually hope I'm wrong on some of them so that I can make sense of the arguments that our seemingly more technologically intelligent friends are making:

Does not every engine waste tons of energy in it's operation? Is not a high percentage of fuel in any combustion engine unused in the combustion cycle and spat out as pollution? Doesn't an alternator (generally speaking) create an excess of electrical energy in it's operation (this one I could be wrong on as I am an infant in my knowledge on alternators) which is thus wasted as well? If most of what I have asked above is true, than why am I and many like me ridiculed for making our own devices (made from cheap and readily available parts) that simply helps make use of wasted energy? It's not a matter of trying to get more out of what was put in. It's a matter of making the most of what was put in, no? Think of solar panel technology.

Take the Sun for example. This massive Hydrogen generator, constantly humming along without interruption is continuously powering our whole solar system, with it's light, heat and it's vast gravitational field (among other things)... and we, the ever so lucky inhabitants of the Earth are blessed everyday with just a small smigent of power from this colossal Hydrogen machine (which is apparently quite small compared to the Sun's of many other solar systems) ... and look around you. Look at your planet and all it's wonder, all thanks to the smallest percentile of energy extracted from that massive light orb. Amazing.

And symbolic... I simply believe that what we think is a small amount of energy, like a liter of gasoline for example, is far more energy than we realize. Another example is food. You could function on one meal a day if you had to or chose to. Consider all the functions of your body, both voluntary and automatic. I'd say it takes an incredible amount of energy to do what we do everyday, and it all comes from what little food we eat and drink and absorb all around us.

Fossil fuel is essentially trapped sunlight. We use sunlight, indirectly, to power our vehicles, to power our bodies... and I bet you there is a lot more out of that stored sunlight (petrol) that we can make use of if we put our minds to it. If we cannot stifle our oil addiction, we can at least moderate it and stretch each drop as far as it will go. I say make use of the excess energy wasted, of the abundance leaking through the cracks... and why not do it ourselves, out of our own homes and on our own land and be empowered instead of trapped by the massive corporate machine. It's high time we make our own power, our own food, and teach other's to do it as well.

For more education on such things, for more self-empowerment, I bid the still open-minded yet healthy skeptics to research just one site of many that I could present. This will be the third time I've posted this during this discussion: http://eagle-research.com/

Cheers, and thanks to those who remain positive and encouraging. I love your neutrality loki. And I especially enjoyed your message Sean. Keep it coming. Keep me laughing at least as I watch ego's enjoy their own dramatic performances on screen ;-]

loki wrote:As for "well-established scientific principles" that was my point with the centre of the universe example, that was well established as well as my other things that later came to be known as false

Okay, I'm sorry, I know this is off topic, but this is one of my pet peeves - yeah, historians have weird pet peeves. I bit my tongue the first time, bit harder the second time, but after seeing this little historical myth cited the third time I just can't stop myself.

"I recall someone telling everyone that the earth was not the centre of the universe and getting in a bit of trouble for it. They all KNEW that he was wrong!"

Actually, Galileo didn't exactly get into trouble for saying the earth was not the centre of the universe. In fact, not only was the Pope okay with him talking about it, the Pope *encouraged* his work - right up until Galileo released a book that essentially implied that the Pope was a fool - suddenly the Inquisition paid him a visit... Of course, he ended up with some pretty cushy house arrest, which was pretty mild for the period. Point is, it was not his theories but his insult to the Pope that got him into trouble. Had he not done that, he would undoubtedly have had the continued support of the Pope.

Second, they didn't "all" know he was wrong, because he was hardly the first one to put forth the idea that the earth revolved around the sun - what Galileo was doing was arguing in support of the work of Nicolaus Copernicus - who was writing about a hundred years *before* Galileo. The idea had already been around for centuries before Copernicus, but his work was central to changing astronomical theories.

Okay, I erased a whole bunch of totally boring stuff about paradigm shifts in scientific knowledge. Bottom line remains: Galileo wasn't saying anything new, and it wasn't his theories that landed him in hot water with the Church.

Sorry, folks, I just couldn't hold it in any longer.

Wan wrote:Does not every engine waste tons of energy in it's operation? Is not a high percentage of fuel in any combustion engine unused in the combustion cycle and spat out as pollution? Doesn't an alternator (generally speaking) create an excess of electrical energy in it's operation (this one I could be wrong on as I am an infant in my knowledge on alternators) which is thus wasted as well?

Yes and no. Modern engines are incredibly efficient at consuming all the fuel -- that's why there are O2 sensors, etc. But, only about 10-15% of that energy makes it to the drive wheels, the rest is wasted as heat. After all, if it was 100% efficient at driving the wheels, you wouldn't need a radiator.

The car's electrical system basically only sucks as much power out of the alternator as it needs to run. The more power is needed (e.g., replenish the battery after starting), the more load the alternator puts on the engine. Ignoring all those pesky details like friction, if the electrical system at any given time doesn't need more electricity, then the alternator is doing nothing but spinning.

Ruminante wrote:then the alternator is doing nothing but spinning.

spinning an alternator creates electricity I thought (I wouldn't want to pee on an alternator that was hooked up to a stationary bike), but I could be wrong , I was told in school that Galileo was put under house arrest for his ideas. Funny, that kind of makes a point on the educational system and the validity of what people have learned to be true.

loki wrote:

Ruminante wrote:then the alternator is doing nothing but spinning.

spinning an alternator creates electricity I thought (I wouldn't want to pee on an alternator that was hooked up to a stationary bike), but I could be wrong , I was told in school that Galileo was put under house arrest for his ideas. Funny, that kind of makes a point on the educational system and the validity of what people have learned to be true.

Yes, you are wrong. Spinning alternator has the ABILITY to make electricity, if the regulater deems it is required.

Like I said Wan,
disconnect the the field power to the alternator (the small wire plugs) then test your system.

EricN wrote:

loki wrote:

Ruminante wrote:then the alternator is doing nothing but spinning.

spinning an alternator creates electricity I thought (I wouldn't want to pee on an alternator that was hooked up to a stationary bike), but I could be wrong , I was told in school that Galileo was put under house arrest for his ideas. Funny, that kind of makes a point on the educational system and the validity of what people have learned to be true.

Yes, you are wrong. Spinning alternator has the ABILITY to make electricity, if the regulater deems it is required.

Like I said Wan,
disconnect the the field power to the alternator (the small wire plugs) then test your system.

I stand corrected, I verified the alternator deal with my engineer/yacht repair company owner father, but he did say he would be interested to see the results of the testing to see if increasing the combustion is enough of a gain to overcome the extra load on the engine.

Thanks for the info.! I love what I'm learning.

The more efficient combustion that the hydroxy (HH0) gas adds is definitely overcoming the load of the alternator. My tank of diesel is most certainly lasting longer. I have most of the kinks worked out so I began testing on Wednesday. I'll be averaging the mileage of three fill-ups in the next two or three weeks and I'll post my results to satisfy those of you who want to know.

There are teams of engineers, and garage mechanic / mad scientist types that will gladly share with you there results with their own electrolyzers. There are hundreds of them. Go to the "Hydroxy" or "Watercar" yahoo groups and speak with the members there. Learn for your selves. These are not all ignorant peasants duped by the clever salesman... these are people working on practical technology worthy of their time and energy... and electrolyzers are only one clever do-hicky of many.

If anyone is interested... turns out my alternator worries are over. The vehicle runs fine and the rpm drop turns out to be a normal phenomenon with new electrolyzers. There is no rpm change once the cell has been running for 10 or 15 minutes when I turn it on and off, even with my 300 watt amplifier powering my celebratory tunes. So my alternator must be at least 70 amps. I heard someone say that the "Winter package" Delica's come with 90 amp alternators. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case with mine. No need to check however since everything seems to be working a-okay.

If only I could save the extra 20 cents a litre on diesel by getting bio-diesel, then I'd be even better off. Guys out here on the coast are pulling in to Delica mechanics shops with leaking fuel and injector pumps all the time. I've had two reputed mechanics make me aware of this risk. And a damn expensive fix. It's all because the seals are made of rubber and any grade of bio-diesel eats away at anything made of natural rubber. So naturally I would ask, does anyone know of any source for synthetic seals for the pumps? and what about synthetic fuel lines? Do these exist in Delica land?

Wan

Wan wrote:I definitely have a few things to learn before I can call myself an expert at this, but I have a passion for alternative energy through which I am slowly boosting the mileage of my Delica while many of you squabble about whether this stuff works, or even if it's worth the effort. I say go ahead and pour your money into petrol all you want, into polluting this magnificent awe-inspiring planet... and enjoy the ever increasing prices. I'll be enjoying a vehicle that purrs like a kitten and just goes and goes on one tank.

I don't think 5-10% fuel savings will do much for mother Earth or make you immune to increasing diesel prices. Try WVO for 90% diesel savings and a great smelling tailpipe

5-10% is only your assumption...

Wan wrote:5-10% is only your assumption...

WVO is still more than likely better, depending on the system you can get better than 90% savings.

Wan wrote:5-10% is only your assumption...

It is not my assumption:

Hydrogen-Boost wrote:* I would like to make sure you understand that the Hydrogen-Boost System is a system, not just a device. Though the installation of a hydrogen gas generator will increase the mileage of most vehicles by a considerable amount, usually 5-10% or more, the system that accounts for 50% to 100% increases in mileage includes other components and the implementation of the numerous maintenance and driving recommendations outlined in the operator's manual. No simple device could give 50% to 100% increases in mileage.

Who said I was using "Hydrogen-boost's" system?

They're right though, to get really amazing mileage you have to integrate other clever gizmos and tweaks and driving habits... I completely agree, and that's exactly what I'm doing.

As for WVO... I'm all for it, especially on Delica's!!... but I need someone to point me towards a supplier of synthetic seals and gas lines before I go making a conversion who's fuel (veggie oil) is just going to quickly eat away all of the natural rubber parts of my van (much like bio-diesel does as I mentioned earlier.) I'm still waiting for answers to that dilemna...

Wan wrote:Who said I was using "Hydrogen-boost's" system?

They're right though, to get really amazing mileage you have to integrate other clever gizmos and tweaks and driving habits... I completely agree, and that's exactly what I'm doing.

As for WVO... I'm all for it, especially on Delica's!!... but I need someone to point me towards a supplier of synthetic seals and gas lines before I go making a conversion who's fuel (veggie oil) is just going to quickly eat away all of the natural rubber parts of my van (much like bio-diesel does as I mentioned earlier.) I'm still waiting for answers to that dilemna...

I think CVI and Combs county auto both do this or at least can get the parts.