Single -> Dual Piston brake upgrade + auto -> Manual hubs

[Schwa]

Went to NAPA in Coquitlam today and they have nothing in stock, but can get one rotor in today and everything else would be back-ordered, so several weeks, depending on when they put the order through. I'm thinking about making a run for the border, how long did it take to get yours parts Jesse?

[jessef]

Used partsamerica.com

free shipping (ground). took a week. different parts came from different places.

You can get them all shipped to one store in Lynden I think. Shuck's Auto I believe is their store retailer.

Even with taxes, it was a lot cheaper than here.

You'll have to return your cores though. I suggest do the brake job and then take your two cores back to the store. They'll credit you on the spot.

BTW, Raybestos brakes are made here in Canada. Stamped on the rotors. I showed this to the border agent.

[Schwa]

partsamerica.com has some loaded calipers in Bellingham but there doesn't seem to be any rotors in any stores they deal with, so it has to be shipped to a US address, which I could do, but I also called NAPA in Blaine and they can get everything in from the Seattle warehouse by Tuesday if I order and pre-pay by Monday... probably go that route since it's closer than the US address I'd have it sent to and likely a bit faster.

A bit ironic that they make the darn things in Canada but are next to impossible to find! I do understand why, but still, it's frustrating. Don't lots of the freshly landed '91+ Pajeros need rotors, or are they really that much better?

[Schwa]

Picked up the loaded calipers and rotors today in Blaine... My friend's car got searched going down and coming up, but even though I declared the brake parts they didn't ding me any duty or taxes, so that was nice. Gonna have to grab a few tools at Princess Auto to get the job done, can't even get the auto hub cover off, d'oh!

[jessef]

You are screwing it off, right ? Counter clock-wise

[Schwa]

My friend thought he had one of those chain oil filter wrenches, but we couldn't find it and no other tool we tried would unscrew it, so gonna pick one up, also going to need that 8mm hex key, seems the common kits skip this size.

[Schwa]

Princess Auto didn't have the chain oil filter wrench, but they had the giant vice-grip style which I remember seeing photos of someone using a while ago, and it worked... one side came off fairly easy, the other side needed a little persuasion:



Went with a metric hex impact driver set to get the auto-hub off which worked very well.


I put the wheel back on and lowered it down just enough to stop it from spinning because I had already removed the caliper.

Before the cuts:


After cutting the backing plate:


I didn't do much documenting of the job, mostly because I was just trying to get it finished, which didn't quite happen yesterday, got one side done and new rotor on the hub on the passenger side, still have to cut the backing plate and re-pack the front bearing before re-assembly.

[Schwa]

All done! Getting that circlip thing back on was really hard on the driver's side, but it came off much easier than the passenger side.





Had I gone with '89 Montero parts (direct replacements instead of upgrading) it would have been $40 cheaper... not a bad upgrade for $40!

Here's what went wrong with my caliper:



All parts ordered from NAPA in Blaine...

Left Caliper (loaded semi-metalic pads) 442-64009 $70.59
Right Caliper (loaded semi-metalic pads) 442-64010 $70.59
Front Rotor - Premium (x2) 4886687 $49.49 ---> $98.98
Core Deposit on calipers $55 ------> $110

Total $350.16 + $29.41 tax = $379.57

After core returns (hopefully they'll take them) -$119.24 = $260.33 US

[jessef]

Nice job

[mararmeisto]

Notice the difference?

[Schwa]

YES! quite a bit better braking, but I haven't towed the boat yet which will be the real test for them. There's also a slight difference in the way the front end feels, maybe from additional un-sprung weight... hard to say.

[jessef]

Had some PM's asking for a difference between Gen I and Gen II stuff.

Brakes

Here you can see the size differences in the hardware. Gen 1 is on top gen 2 on the bottom. The gen 2 pads have much more surface area, but are the same contour of the Gen1.



The splash shield requires some trimming/bending in order to accommodate the bigger brackets.

Before:



After:



Hubs

Gen 2 hubs can be swapped on a Gen 1; there are just a few differences.

Difference #1: the Gen1 has notches which appear to have no function in 3 of the six points where the locking hubs mount. Gen2 on the left, and Gen1 on the right.



The Gen1 hub looks slightly bigger in diameter in that picture but it's an optical illusion; the measured circumference is the same.

Difference #2: the top portion of the hubs have some differences in grooving. On the Gen2 the optional ABS ring would mount in that area. Since the Gen1 wouldn't use the ABS ring, it probably doesn't matter. Gen1 on left, Gen2 on the right.



Note the dimension from the top to the bottom of the hubs are the same.

Difference #3: the Gen2 has a thinner ring where the wheel mounts. Therefore the wheel would be slightly farther in (about 3mm) toward the frame if used on a Gen1. Same picture above.

Rotors

Here's a comparison of the rotors. The distance from the hub mount to the top of the rotors is the same, but the working portion of the Gen2 is obviously thicker, with wider cooling vents in the center. This is the thicker Gen2 3.5L rotor. 27mm as compared to the 22mm Gen1 3.0L rotor.



Also, the hub bolts for the Gen2 3.5L are shorter than the Gen1 (46mm vs. 55mm) The bolts from the Gen1 can't be used to mount the Gen2 3.5 rotor because the threads don't go down far enough for the nut to secure the rotor.

All of the gear I've been using/swapping onto Delica's have been Mitsubishi Montero (North American).

[lrp374]

Man is this a great post.!!!!!!! I have been concerned about the stopping power as I've recently been on some 10-14 % grades and if I don't go downhill in 1st. it doesn't take long before the brakes start to smell. This looks like a great solution. A little patience with the search can really find some great stuff. Thanks for the great instructions and pictures.

Larry

[oceaneer77]

Just finished the brake upgrade... Wow what a difference.

This is the best mod by far for the delica.. forget all the others until you do this.

Got the rotors and pads from NAPA in victoria and the Calipers from LORDCO in Victoria.
The finished cost was $350-400 so more than it costs in the states but I wanted the stuff now and did not want to wait.

Stopping is dramatically shorter and pedal fade is much better. It feels much more positive, but initial brake play is increased.
(you need to push a bit further to engage the brakes) Im going to try to adjust the free play a bit to offset this.

But thanks to all the posters who made this job so easy...
Now i would love to do a bit to the rear brakes to compliment the fronts., any ideas out there?

Oceaneer

[Golf Cart]

Oceaneer

RichD, Fexilboi, and myself have done the upgrade over the last 3 weekends. All with great success.

We did notice that no matter how much you bled the system, the pedal felt a little different than before the upgrade. Almost spongy, but a BIG increase in stopping power.

We swapped out Felix's rubber hoses for Steel braided one both front and back and Bingo,Bango,Bongo......brake pedal is now right up.

Felix's hose swap was a little tricky as he has 2 inch spacers at the upper ball joint. We used Russell brand pre-made hoses from Lordco with the added fittings.

2x 9 inch for the front ( although 9 is a tad long on the upper section for him, it works. Ive had 7 inch made up and will report back as to the fit, but I'm working with a 1 inch spacer) The lower was just a lil short so we had to mod up new brackets at the caliper.

We went 27 inch in the rear with no problems.

One other thing we did was make up new 3/16 lines from the caliper to the first braided hose. The stock one was just a little too small and bending an already formed brake line usually ends up in a crimp, or at least a weak spot. We made up news ones.

9 inch line is about $20, and the fittings are $5 apiece. My 7 inch I had made up are worthy of a formula 1 car, and a $40 price tag to go with it. I probably could have sourced out a cheaper place, but when it comes to brakelines, I went with a company I know.


Happy Braking !!!