Propane injection & Bypass oil filter

[Drumster]

I wasn't having much luck finding an independent installer for P/I; besides the eCo-shot affiliates in Chilliwack.

I had contact with some good guys out east who've worked a lot with these systems. The only issue there is that they're... well -- out east. Was referred to Radd Cruisers though and they probably would be great except they're on the Island; Duncan actually... may as well be out east.

I called Al at my local Firestone shop (Route 99). He's been great with a number of things; installed my dual bypass etc., but says they're not propane certified, which would be required; liability-wise.

After a few more phone calls I ended up talking to AFS Auto Propane in Bby and... it looks like I have a willing and qualified installer. They also have a variety of tanks. Now I just have to secure the Powershot 2000 kit with instructions and get it over to them.

It shouldn't be very difficult. Propane into my K&N Apollo box. Vacuum tube into turbo. Pretty straight forward it seems.

Will keep you posted over the weeks.

[Mr. Flibble]

After a few more phone calls I ended up talking to AFS Auto Propane in Bby and... it looks like I have a willing and qualified installer. They also have a variety of tanks. Now I just have to secure the Powershot 2000 kit with instructions and get it over to them.

It shouldn't be very difficult. Propane into my K&N Apollo box. Vacuum tube into turbo. Pretty straight forward it seems.

Will keep you posted over the weeks.

Please keep a logbook and track all your fill ups and fuel carefully! Also, it may be worth buying a lighted scope and check out your cyl heads from time to time. If you are getting pre-ignition, you will start to see damage on the cylinder faces.

[tonydca]

I'm gonna wade in here and speculate that perhaps a simpler / more reliable / less risky way to invest money to get mo' power/MPG out of a stock rig would be to install a high-flow intake/exhaust manifold and make sure that your injectors/IP are set up properly.

I also second the idea that the propane is helping by adding energy in the form of extra fuel, not burning unburnt diesel headed out the exhaust. If your diesel is smoking that badly under normal usage, you need a Deli-Tune, not a propane kit.

Edit: I just had a thought regarding state-of-tune of the engine. Diesels lose power real quick if they are running too lean, so a big power improvement from propane might mean you are staving your engine of fuel and the propane is making up the difference.

Again, I'd make sure your fuel delivery is set up correctly first before investing in a propane kit.

[Drumster]

Hey Tony, how'ya doin'?
Just for the record, my diesel doesn't smoke at all that I'm aware of. Just a puff at start up.

I'm gonna wade in here and speculate that perhaps a simpler / more reliable / less risky way to invest money to get mo' power/MPG out of a stock rig would be to install a high-flow intake/exhaust manifold and make sure that your injectors/IP are set up properly.

I also second the idea that the propane is helping by adding energy in the form of extra fuel, not burning unburnt diesel headed out the exhaust. If your diesel is smoking that badly under normal usage, you need a Deli-Tune, not a propane kit.

[Drumster]

Sorry to hear it didn't meet your expectations. Would you mind posting a few pics?... particularly of the installed tank and exactly where the propane is introduced in relation to the turbo.
Thanks.
Tim

If your system is over injecting propane, then it will be thirsty. 3 cfm at max boost with a gradual increase of propane is the benchmark Wayne uses and tunes from there.

Burning through a 5lb tank in under one 70L fill is insane for a 4cyl TD.

First of all, the energy content of 5 lbs of propane vs 60L of diesel are huge - in favor of the diesel, so its not actually that insane to burn through that much.

Secondly, if a little bit of propane gets you better mileage, I fail to see how more propane would give you no mileage gains at all.

Yes there are different systems out there, some more advanced than others, but in the end they all do the same thing: Put propane into the air intake. I cant imagine one system being able to deliver phenomenal mileage gains and an other system none at all.

I think the theory of unburnt diesel being burnt by the propane is false. At least for an L400. I've played with the settings on my system, to the point where I notice no power gain when engaging the propane system, and the tank does last a lot longer this way, but I still dont get any measurable mileage gains.

So say what you will about the benefits of propane, but I actually have it installed and running on my van, and in hindsight I dont think its worth the money and risk.

[Drumster]

I've already had a "Deli-tune" and I think your suggestion for bigger exhaust is a good one. Ideally I'd get both bigger exhaust and P/I.
I really don't have any complaints with my engine: I just want to ensure I'm getting optimum fuel economy & performance -- not through babying the machine, but by simply optimizing it mechanically. The technical explanations behind the P/I seems to be a point of contention but the results themselves seem pretty clear: at least to me. I certainly don't doubt the results Jesse's friends have been getting. Still, from a practical $ standpoint, there may be a better way to optimize my 4M40 such as exhaust + upgraded turbo. Anyone know of a muffler shop that's done the 2.5" exhaust for L400?

I'm gonna wade in here and speculate that perhaps a simpler / more reliable / less risky way to invest money to get mo' power/MPG out of a stock rig would be to install a high-flow intake/exhaust manifold and make sure that your injectors/IP are set up properly.

I also second the idea that the propane is helping by adding energy in the form of extra fuel, not burning unburnt diesel headed out the exhaust. If your diesel is smoking that badly under normal usage, you need a Deli-Tune, not a propane kit.

Edit: I just had a thought regarding state-of-tune of the engine. Diesels lose power real quick if they are running too lean, so a big power improvement from propane might mean you are staving your engine of fuel and the propane is making up the difference.

Again, I'd make sure your fuel delivery is set up correctly first before investing in a propane kit.

[Drumster]

I just bought this...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170829936736?ss ... 1438.l2649 Shipped within USA for $525. total.

When our friend Jesse said the Powershot 2000 & eCo-shot P/I systems were "the same" I assumed he meant they were very similar or worked in the same way etc. But no, they actually are literally the same thing!

Here's the pic from eCo-shot site... http://www.ecoshot.ca/features-benefits/ (Sells locally for $1200.)

Here's a pic of Powershot 2000 ... http://www.dieselperformanceproducts.com/ (Sells out of USA for $650.)

These are not just two pics of the same thing, they're the exact same photo. Weird eh!?

Anyway, I'll likely be picking mine up from Blaine next week!

[Drumster]

So here's the goodies I picked up today. There's also instructions, kind of, but they're very presumptive that one is already very familiar with the system etc. There's not even a standard parts list specifying and identifying what all is included. It all matches the pics I've seen but it would be nice to know what's what. Should be an adventure.

If anyone can make an educated guess as to what some of these parts are called, that'd be awesome.

There's the main unit and a bunch of plastic ties...



Here's a copious length of hose, wiring, switches and what looks like some sort of regulator for connecting to tank. I'm not really sure...

[rezdiver]

thats all you get for over 500 dollars?
seems pretty spendy for a regulator, solenoid, couple of brass fittings and a bunch of hoses and wires with a switch.

first picture looks like the pressure regulator connected with a boost controller going to the brass tees with a pressure relief valve.

second picture looks like your solenid control valve (on/off) with the wiring and switch to turn it on and off. wiring harness also looks like it has the wires in it to connect to your fuse box or battery.

looks like the solenoid has a fitting to connect to your tank on the short side with the longer side connecting the solenoid to the regulator.and then feeding the hose to the intake using the hose provided. by the looks of it the regulator and solenoid stay near the tank in the back while the legth of hose carries the regulated gas to the engine at a lower pressure.

Just google "powershot 2000" and you get a few pictures of setups in vehicles under google images.

[Drumster]

Hi Rez, I've seen pretty much whatever info is available on the net. It can probably all be installed without knowing very much but I'm curious and like to know what does what etc. BTW, I don't feel bad about $525. delivered. The same kit locally is $1200. And from a different US retailer is $650. plus shipping.

What I'm going to do is contact the manufacturer and ask for more specific details, parts list etc. Apparently the regulating unit can be mounted at the tank if preferred but high pressure hose is required. The supplied hose could actually be high pressure rated for all I know but that's the sort of info that's missing. Instructions just refer to "fuel hose".

[Drumster]

Diesel Performance Products were very quick getting back to me and very helpful. It seems the kit I bought from a distributor is an older one and while basic components are the same, instructions & recommendations have been updated. The directions, which they sent in PDF format, are still somewhat vague (mostly due to really lousy grammar and the assumption that the reader already knows what the writer is on about) and although I do now have a written parts list, it doesn't show which thing is what... so I'm guessing -

SYSTEM CONTENTS

-DIESEL FUEL SAVER AND TANK PRESSURE-REGULATOR ASSEMBLY WITH BRACKET (YES) The main unit.

-LOCKOFF SOLENOID (YES) Um, the gizmo that connects the unit to tank?

-5 FEET HIGH PRESSURE HOSE WITH ENDS (NO - 2 feet only)

-25 FEET OF HIGH PRESSURE HOSE (NO)

-25 FEET OF BOOST LINE HOSE (YES) Easy to spot.

-CUSTOM SWITCH ASSEMBLY WITH MOUNTING BEZEL (YES) Bezel?? OK, the bracket.

-HARNESS ASSEMBLY (YES)) Easy.

-OIL PRESSURE SENDING UNIT/HARNESS (DFSI SYSTEMS ONLY_) (NO)

MISC BAGGED PARTS CONTAINING:

-ELECTRICAL CONNECTORS
( ASSORTED FUSE TAPS, ETC) (YES) OK.

-ASSORTED BRASS FITTINGS (YES - one "T" fitting) Obvious.

-HOSE CLAMPS (2) (YES)

-SCREWS (2) (YES)

-ZIP TIES (25) (YES)

-PROPANE PLACARD (NO)

It looks to me as though the retailer I bought from had this on display in his show room, fact he said so. Perhaps had pre-assembled some of the parts. For that reason it's hard to tell if some things from the list are missing or if they're just attached to other things. The only obvious missing parts are the two rolls of hose; which I don't think I'll need for my DL400.

Basically, it looks like I have everything needed.

Fortunately, after going over all the pics and piecing stuff together on the floor, I've been able to figure out most of the puzzle. From what I can tell, the Co. no longer recommends mounting the unit in engine compartment but close to tank instead. Prob'ly just as well cuz I don't know how much more stuff I can fit under the hood anyway!

This project is looking less & less daunting as I move along. Instead of having a shop do all the work I may actually end up installing most of it myself... as much as possible in a condo parkade anyway!

Am planning to place the tank where the spare tire lives and next year getting a bumper tire mount like Profister had done for his spare; that thing is awesome.

Until then, maybe a tire plug kit and portable compressor will keep me rolling.

[Drumster]

For those of you following along or considering propane injection for your 4m40:
- the easiest line to "T" into is the small cloth coated one coming up from turbo in center of pic & over to metal tube at top front side of engine (from Injector pump, I believe). I haven't performed any of this surgery yet but this is where the boost sensing line will go.

You can see that line tied to a bundle of wires in this photo and can also see where the propane will be injected into the air mix via a fitting I have which will go in place of the hex head plug, visible on the right of the K&N filter.

[del400]

keep them coming. i am intrigued... I was looking into HHO, maybe propane is the way to go???


a

[Mr. Flibble]

keep them coming. i am intrigued... I was looking into HHO, maybe propane is the way to go???


a

HOH/HHO is a scam. Propane actually works.

However, propane does this by adding an extra fuel to the intake, so extra fuel = more power. Since propane burns at a lower temp than Diesel (and has less energy) it results in lower EGTs; provided that over fueling does not occur.

Pros: propane costs less per litre. May reduce EGT. Can add power. Can reduce $ spent per km.

Cons: do it wrong and you damage/destroy your engine.

Lots of reading in detail about how HHO is a scam can be found here:

http://www.aardvark.co.nz/hho.shtml

The math:

http://www.aardvark.co.nz/hho_scam.shtml

[legionnair]

Also one faulty valve/solenoid with a propane leak and the diesel will run away that is a scary thing trust me.