Delica Canada | Mitsubishi Van Club

Posted: **Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:29 am**

FalcoColumbarius wrote:Pajerry, where does the phrase "drink the kool-aid" come from?

You know the ironic aspect to this whole situation is that the champion of the so called "vendor section", the person that has been "protecting the forum" from those nasty dealers has actually moved 8 or 9 vehicles himself since he joined Delica Canada in late February, 2008. Does that not make him a vendor? So would this not theoretically confine him to the same prospective status as other vendors?

Just a thought.

Falco no idea if he is a dealer or not, but should not that be something that the administers decide instead of joining in the mud throwing on here...What difference does it make if Venders and "regular" users are all the same?

There is a picture of the problem with this site and it is hanging over the sink in your bathroom and another one in Marks bathroom. This site needs leadership and that it does not have. Do to the lack of Leadership to lead and deal with problem users it is falling apart.

Other forums that I have been on I send an email about a problem with a post and instantly that post is dealt with (either agree with me or a PM saying they are ok with the post) but leadership.

Get your head out of the sand.

Posted: **Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:56 am**

Edited and taking the high road.

“A leader leads by example, whether he intends to or not." ~ Lao Tzu
An administrator should not sling mud at their own membership nor single any one member out as the current topic revolves around many members, not just one.

“A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves.” ~ Lao Tzu
Mark sets a good example as a forum administrator by using these principles; hidden from view, working as an architect/administrator and leading with non-biased and concise communication with the forum members.

Two very different cooks in the kitchen.

Posted: **Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:14 pm**

The dealers are annoying and there are definate divided camps and things could be better...but...its nothing like how awful it was when Green1 used to be on here. That was truly horrible. I'll take 10 each pushy Stevens and Mardys over that any day.

Posted: **Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:24 pm**

Posted: **Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:25 pm**

Looking from a outsider a big majority of the member would like to see a forum free of dealer advertising. So where is the problem?

Posted: **Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:41 pm**

The dealers are annoying and there are definate divided camps and things could be better...but...its nothing like how awful it was when Green1 used to be on here. That was truly horrible. I'll take 10 each pushy Stevens and Mardys over that any day.

Or how about that wiener that sold the mini trucks, he sure liked to pick fights with everyone - even his own clients. He kept showing up under different aliases. He was very abusive towards me via PM. I don't miss him.

Posted: **Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:32 pm**

I thought there was a comment from MardyDelica here. It must had be deleted for some reason

Posted: **Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:17 pm**

FalcoColumbarius wrote:Pajerry, where does the phrase "drink the kool-aid" come from?

You know the ironic aspect to this whole situation is that the champion of the so called "vendor section", the person that has been "protecting the forum" from those nasty dealers has actually moved 8 or 9 vehicles himself since he joined Delica Canada in late February, 2008. Does that not make him a vendor? So would this not theoretically confine him to the same prospective status as other vendors?

Just a thought.

It comes from Jim Jones and the Jonestown massacre with their delightful suicide cocktail.. momma's secret recipe!

Does he advertise new vehicles very often? I haven't ever looked at delica trader. Before delica trader I didn't notice him sell more than a couple vans but I have been known to be wrong so feel free to correct me.

Regardless, insinuating that he is a 'curbsider' is very serious accusation as it is highly illegal and goes beyond being a 'vendor' on some bulletin board.. Does he sell them through a registered business? Does he have an inventory of used vehicles to sell for profit? Does he make a profit on more than two vehicles per year (edit: pretty sure you are allowed upto 11)? If Jesse makes more than 8k-10k a year self-employed (may be less) he has to set up a numbered company, city business license at a minimum for tax purposes and probably register as a dealer since it is automotive. All along with the liability insurance, and probably a commercial property to show your vehicles that goes along with that.

I hope im not being too naive but I look at it this way.. selling 8 vehicles in four years, he made probably 3-5k each max (no idea just throwing that out there, probably close depending on love put in). So $40k/4 years and you get about 10k a year. So as far as the tax man goes he is not a dealer but a private seller. It may be borderline, but that is completely up to the CRA when they audit him up to 7 years later..

Let me put it this way, if any other dealer like Steven would be able to call him on that, they would have by now :)\

How many vans/trucks do the other dealers sell on average? If it isn't more than 8 vehicles in 4 years, do yourself a favor, pack it up and find another line of work!

Posted: **Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:30 am**

jfarsang wrote:
“A leader leads by example, whether he intends to or not." ~ Lao Tzu
An administrator should not sling mud at their own membership nor single any one member out as the current topic revolves around many members, not just one.

Who is slinging mud? I merely stated the irony of this situation. Have you not imported and sold vehicles? By your definition of the vendor section you are promulgating, please correct me if I have misunderstood this: It is to be a forum where any dealers are to offer free advice. Ipso facto ~ they shall post only in that forum and not anywhere else? Am I correct in this understanding? By practical definition does this not also include you?

You must understand that Mark and I are not the "leaders" of Delica Canada, we are the administration, the guys that provide and maintain a venue for Delica owners (and others) to compare notes and discuss technical issues. Using the term "leaders" implies that we are going somewhere. We're not. We are just a venue for a community. That community includes all the members, including you and Steven. We can't be more equal to some than others.

Laozi also wrote:"A good traveller has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving."

_______________

Pajerry, I wanted to determine whether you were referring to the Reverend Jimmy Jones or Tom Wolfe. Either way I respect you as a driver, tradesmen, as an all round human being and I would gladly have a beer with you but I ain't gonna drink the Kool-Aid. I am not accusing anyone of being a curber, nor am I interested how much people make or whether they have a license to operate, this is none of my business ~ I was merely pointing out the irony of the situation.

thedjjack wrote:........What difference does it make if Venders and "regular" users are all the same?.......

You are right, it doesn't make any difference. This is pretty much why I brought it up. Some members have asked "why have I joined this discussion when I should be looking on in the distance as an administrator mounted on his Delica?" Well ~ many posts have been directed to me and I don't want to appear rude by ignoring everyone ~ besides, like yourself, I am also a member here and like to talk about Delicas. I have nothing against you as a person, it was nice seeing you again at the last mini-meet and I think your kid is stellar. I make it a point to like everybody as it makes my world more comfortable, but I must admit that sometimes behaviour patterns get in the way, including mine ~ sorry, I'm only human, as are you.

Regarding sending private communications to various members about certain situations ~ we do that, but to be discreet we don't publicise the fact, even though some members have done so.

Peace,

Falco.

Posted: **Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:24 am**

mark wrote:Finally I would again encourage all moderators/admins never to “engage” members on the public forum in interpersonal disagreements that pop up from time to time. The preferred approach is to simply ignore them (a member’s posting tone primarily sheds light on his or her own character), or if necessary to deal with the issue in the form of a PM or warning.

Heed the advice of the other site administrator. Questioning one member while ignoring the majority reads like a Vladimir Putin maneuver and not the behavior of a site administrator.

Your questions are very direct and place the assumption that I am a dealer or curber.

Frankly what I do with MY VEHICLES IN MY OWN TIME IS MY OWN BUSINESS. Not yours.

You know full well how much love and enthusiasm I place in this forum, my rides and those that I have gone through.

People that know me, yourself included, know that I go through vehicles like candy and I enjoy it. Those that have bought or traded rigs with me know that as well.

Having a site administrator single out a member and accuse them of a serious crime (curber = illegal sales of vehicles) is not child's play. It is serious and I would like to talk to you about it in person.

I invite you to my home or a pub over a beer, instead in a public forum, to respect me as an adult and talk to me face to face about your concerns if you have any with me.

Posted: **Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:41 am**

I've stayed off here for the past few days and was going to do so for a week or two. But I just happened to get an email that drug me back to this shit. WTF happened to our little music discussion?

Ok, here I go diving back in, head first.....

First off to pajerry, good post, that pretty much sums up the feeling I get from every member I've spoken to. A smack on your hand for dragging this thread back through the shit again though.

Falco, shame on you, your comments are surprising to me. You are an administrator on this forum and should be minding the words you use in your posts. You really want to call out Jesse as a "curber"? These are the type of accusations that can severely damage ones reputation as well as bring about serious legal action. You said that you are merely pointing out irony, well done, I'm merely pointing out bullshit. That's just a weak excuse for a passive aggressive backhanded comment. I can see, have seen and understand RSI taking this road and using these tactics, but from you, I am seriously shocked.

Maybe for some of the uninformed, but especially for all the blow-hards on here who like to throw around accusations, let us have a look at information on these "curbers" in question, shall we?
This is quoted from the Canadian Bar Association, BC Branch:

Whom can you buy a used car from?
You can buy a used car from a dealer or a private seller. A dealer is anyone who sells or exchanges motor vehicles for profit. Dealers must be licensed by the Motor Vehicle Sales Authority of BC (the VSA) and follow certain rules. Whether you buy from a dealer or a private seller, there are usually no guarantees on used cars from dealers or manufacturers. So before you buy a car, it’s good to have a mechanic inspect it. That can protect you from buying a car with big problems.

Don’t buy from a “curber” – a person without a licence who is selling motor vehicles for profit. Item 2 below, in the section called “What should you always check and do before you buy,” has more on this. To see if a person or business is a licensed dealer, see the VSA website at http://www.mvsabc.com.

What's that you say, you want to know what this "item 2" is that they talk about? Well okay.

Item 2
Avoid “curbers” – people who sell motor vehicles for profit, but without a motor dealer license. By law, anyone selling motor vehicles in BC must have a dealer license from the Motor Vehicle Sales Authority. Curbers operate illegally. They can cheat people by doing things such as turning back the odometer to make it look like a vehicle has lower mileage than it really has. Curbers get vehicles from BC and elsewhere in Canada and the US. They may hide the fact that a vehicle comes from eastern Canada or the US and has serious but hidden rust problems. And they may charge extremely high and illegal interest rates. There are many types of curbers. Some are mechanics who have repair facilities and also sell vehicles. Some curbers have 6 or 7 cars parked on their front lawn with “for sale” signs. To learn how to spot a curber, watch the videos at http://www.mvsabc.com.

It’s risky to buy from a curber. You may lose your deposit. The curber may lie about the vehicle’s condition. If you buy from a curber and then have a problem, you’re in a bad situation. You can try to sue in court, but that’s expensive and often futile. The VSA can investigate the curber, but it can’t help you get your money back.

Hey everybody, look what I found, it's a moving picture about this very subject made by the Motor Vehicle Sales Authority of British Columbia.

Hey, here's some more from the Automobile Retailers Association:

CONSUMERS - BEWARE!

Avoid "Curbers"
Have you ever bought a used car to find out that it had been stolen or the VIN #'s been switched? Or, you later learned that there were liens against it? Or, perhaps an accident had not been disclosed? Then you discovered that you had no recourse to protect your interest for this rather large purchase? There is no recourse in private sales! Buyer Beware! (You do have recourse when you buy from a licensed dealer.)

You have no protection from Curbsiders either! Curbers are unlicensed used-car "traffickers" who usually acquire junk cars, and then sell them from either parking lots or curbsides, advertising through local newspaper ads or "For Sale" signs in the vehicles' windows.

As these "imposters" are unlicensed, they do not have to follow government-mandated regulations, which are in place to protect you, the consumer. These vehicles may have their odometers spun back, they may have been in previous undisclosed accidents rendering them unsafe for the road, and they could originally be from out-of-province or even the country.

You are at risk when purchasing a vehicle from one of these frauds, not only for your own safety and the safety of others, but if something goes wrong with the vehicle, you have no where to turn for support.

TIPS TO HELP YOU SPOT A CURBER:

Check the Vehicle Sales Authority's web site to ensure that the person you are dealing with is a valid registered and licensed motor dealer at http://www.mdcbc.com.

Check under Consumer Info / Licensed Motor Dealers. If they're not listed here, it's likely they're a curber.

If you are checking out your local newspaper ads and you phone about a car you'd like to see and the seller responds, "which one?" you may want to think twice about it. Chances are he's a "curber". When in doubt...

If you are in the process of purchasing the vehicle, check the registration to make sure it is in the seller's name. Ask him how long he's owned the car and any other pertinent questions about this vehicle. Never let the seller register the vehicle for you.

If the seller insists you meet at a restaurant or grocery store parking lot, be alert! Chances are that's the last time and place you'll ever see him. Curbers usually change their phone numbers and their locations.

Insist on having a reputable mechanic inspect the vehicle for safety. Inspections usually cost in the area of $100. If the seller has a problem with this, then so should you!

Do your research! Check out a vehicle's history. Look to see if your vehicle's ever been stolen or written-off! (Carefully examine the body, paint, doors, hood, trunk, and the bumpers and fenders to detect any prior accidents or body work.)

Now this doesn't sound like the Jesse that I know. Anybody else want to support this asinine theory that Jesse is a curber?

If you do, by all means pull out you soap box and step up. Otherwise shut the fu@k up about it already.

I can't believe that this community has degraded to this point.

For crying out loud, Mark and Falco, just do what the majority of the forum wants and put a dealer only section in. It won't ruin Delica.ca, it will simply act as a barrier to prevent future conflicts. Who gives a shit who advertises here and how much they pay, this forum was not built for them and it should not cater to them.

I will be back when we're back onto discussing music.

Posted: **Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:51 am**

Hi Fishtank, et al.,

There seems to be a misunderstanding. Let's set the record straight. The only time I have used the term "Curber" is in response to Pajerry's post:

pajerry wrote:......Regardless, insinuating that he is a 'curbsider' is very serious accusation as it is highly illegal and goes beyond being a 'vendor' on some bulletin board.. ........

In which I replied:

FalcoColumbarius wrote:.....I am not accusing anyone of being a curber, nor am I interested how much people make or whether they have a license to operate, this is none of my business ~ .........

The fact is I don't know what Jesse's income is, nor do I care. Nowhere in any post I have written have I called Jesse a curber. The two people to use this term are Pajerry, as stated above (actually used the term "curbsider") and Jesse:

jfarsang wrote:....Your questions are very direct and place the assumption that I am a dealer or curber. ....

I find this odd as it was only last week that Jesse sent me a communication congratulating me on a job well done and thanking me for smoothing things out.

As you may remember, Pajerry posted a rant a page ago in reference to a comment Jesse made:

jfarsang wrote:FLAMING & ABUSE
Please, no messages that harass, insult, belittle, or threaten another member.

I felt I should respond (fourth post after) as it was critical of a number of members and also it referred to me. I felt it was a straight forward reply. Jesse picked up on this right away and his first line of response is "The administrators really have the ultimate choice of the direction this site goes towards." Which is contrary to what I wrote. Then Thedjjack responded referring to "the bull shit administration that ignores it members". After which Pajerry responds by suggesting I commit ritual suicide by drinking Jonestown Kool-Aid and create a new forum that's designed to lock certain members in.

The problem with this proposed forum, amongst other things, is it creates the threat of a hierarchy amongst the membership, as Mark pointed out in item two of his original response to Jesse's original post (which has since been replaced). This club is not about that ~ it's about courtesy amongst equals.

It is at this point that I made the observation that as Jesse has gone through eight or nine vehicles** over the better part of the past four years, which is true. Would he not theoretically be in the same bracket? I believe this is what sparked the allegations toward me. It was a theoretical proposition and was phrased as such.
Even Jesse has commented:

jfarsang wrote:.....People that know me, yourself included, know that I go through vehicles like candy and I enjoy it. Those that have bought or traded rigs with me know that as well. .....

Do you feel this argument of pointed words is going anywhere? I know I don't enjoy these moments. Let's drop all this and get on with Delicas and save our complaining for the price of diesel.

Falco.

By the way, have you noticed that Steven has dropped his signature advertising ensign from his posts? Which is what this was allegedly about in the first place? I think that is a positive step on Steven's behalf.

** I don't have an exact number, which is why I have not given one.

Posted: **Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:30 am**

It would be a whole lot cooler if we solved our problems with a ghetto blaster and some cardboard. I can see it now...it would look something like this <<begin dream sequence>>

Posted: **Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:12 pm**

FalcoColumbarius wrote: By the way, have you noticed that Steven has dropped his signature advertising ensign from his posts? Which is what this was allegedly about in the first place? I think that is a positive step on Steven's behalf.

This statement is misleading. The change in the signature has happened after my post in the Site 1.1.1 Rule; you can read it HERE. So, this is not the sign of Steve's good will but rather the result of exposing the fact of the obvious violation.
Ii repeat my post: '...but I still concider it being general business advertising and therefore contradicting the Rule 1.1.1 and Mark's remarks. The same applies to CVI, Maximum Overdrive, Amazing Auto Imports, Silk Road Autos, EnviroImports, William and probably more.
My question remains the same: Is this an epic site rule failure or something else behind the scenes the community is not aware of? Are you going to keep your word and remove general business advertising messages finally?

Posted: **Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:42 pm**

psilosin wrote:It would be a whole lot cooler if we solved our problems with a ghetto blaster and some cardboard. I can see it now...it would look something like this <<begin dream sequence>>

I am in! I will bring the cardboard and skinny headbands (remember, Thick is Wack!) . You supply the massive 80's tape deck. Problem solved.

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