Welcome to the "Last Word Café".

[jessef]

I sent a pm to Falco inviting him over for a chat and beer. No response.
I sent a pm to Mark. No response.

If Falco and Steven are the only two who are accusing me of being a curber or dealer, then let's play I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

This is one of my many contributions on this board. Curbers don't do this.

http://www.delica.ca/forum/l400-rust-co ... 10125.html

Below is what I do for a living. If I look tired it's not because I'm selling Delica's under the table. It's because I've been up for the past 20hrs. Curbers don't do this.

Falco, you are quite the paradox. You profess to be all loving, free and open minded and you keep touting that this forum is solely about it's members and community. Focusing all of your online emotions and muscles onto me does not detract from the questions you are asked about vendors using this forum as a business and why the hard line against a vendors section. You are the only person who brings up your forum as being open for hijacking by lazy people making another site. So what? Throwing your contradicting zen comments and paranoia in full view of your membership is an odd way to operate as a site admin.

We all know the answer. It all comes down to money. This forum has changed.

You guys make your own call. I'm signing out to continue to work (since 2am) as a curber in a hospital supporting surgeons and doctors where some of you may have passed or may pass through someday. I'm done with this BS.

[pajerry]

After which Pajerry responds by suggesting I commit ritual suicide by drinking Jonestown Kool-Aid and create a new forum that's designed to lock certain members in.

Wow where to start..

Falco, I didn't mean to offend you by the proverbial kool-aid reference, I meant it more as jump on the bandwagon and embrace the majority. Not off yourself and start another forum or 'lock members in'...where did that come from that is ludicrous, we couldn't and wouldn't have a deli forum without you!!! You asked if I knew where the reference was, I did, but that is not how it is used 99% of time these days..

You are right on one point.. I am the only one that mentioned the word 'curber' or 'curbsider' coined by the media during the PR battle/lobby to address the growing popularity of private vehicle sales due to free internet listing sites. I think Jesse just reacted emotionally due to the extent of the insinuating question and how I interpreted it. I'm not trying to stir a hornets nest, just point out some facts. --Legally however, suggesting that he is a dealer or vendor is saying the same thing. I recommend you retract the suggestive questions, passive aggressive allegations or whatever you want to dress it up as, entirely. But thats just how I see it, feel free to disagree.

I regret bringing Jesse's finances into it, and Im not trying to boil anyones blood! The reality is the only reason it is 'illegal' is because the Canada Revenue Agency wants in your back pocket so I wanted to demonstrate that legally he couldn't be making enough income on his hobby to be considered a dealer or to warrant licensing a business either way.

Would he not theoretically be in the same bracket?

I don't think you get it..


Here is a vendor list from a very popular automotive forum, one of the largest I've ever seen... http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/vendors.php

Do you see Jfarsang's privately owned vehicle sales there, or billy bob's egr blanking plates, or RichD's dozen egr gauges or whatever else YOU consider a vendor? No you don't. However you DO see PCI Race Radio's, Pro Form Fabrication, Poison Spyder Customs Inc. just to name a few established registered businesses of varying sizes who can advertise and post at their hearts content within their respected sections. (ALSO TAKE NOTE VENDORS ON DELICA.CA HOW THEY STAY OUT OF TECH THREADS AND TROUBLESHOOTING, THATS WHAT A PM IS FOR IF YOU'RE SO HARD UP FOR SALES)

Here is their main page,
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=58 -- again note the 'vendor's marketplace' where vendors can post all the spam they want. And guess what, in the members sections they have their own user names and can post all they want, again they just can't peddle their junk. The difference is THEY also are professional enough to know not to undermine your competition publicly and since it was never tollerated it is now self regulated.

I don't envy your position current Falco and I have great respect for you as I know it is difficult to cater to the opinions of everyone and in a public forum everything you say can be scrutinized in one way or another.. But, now that we probably have a better understanding of 'vendor's', 'curbers' and 'dealers' both in the real world and on a bulletin board, wouldn't you agree that jfarsang is none of the above?

Wow, should have stayed out. Too late.. !



Jesse don't react and pull another RichD, that does nothing for the community. Relax and let Falco and Mark digest this and we'll all see how it goes as this is just a big social experiment. Im hope dealers/vendors see the big picture. Its just business!

[FalcoColumbarius]

Don't sweat it, Pajerry ~ it can be astonishing how a thread can turn into a wick, leading to a powder keg. I was pretty sure you weren't actually suggesting that I top myself with Jonestown Flavour-aid, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned the bit about having the beer. Sometimes when I hear these comments I think to myself WTF?! I get over it pretty fast. I have a passion for Delicas and for this site but when the baiting starts it gets disappointing. I know it's only poor behaviour and generally people are good, just something from another part of their life is rearing it's head in DC I suspect. So let's get on with it.

Would he not theoretically be in the same bracket?

The point I am making with this is the equality issue ~ the goose & gander thing.

What defines a vendor? In fact we started bantering the idea about as early as August, before we even got DT up ~ except we referred to it as the Merchant Index, a kind of Delica pages if you will. A primary index for dealers & good garages and a secondary index for other things like radios/stereos, security systems, Fred's ski racks, &c., but there are a few things that we have to think out such as how the software package would handle that kind of application ~ the devil is in the details ~ the package we went with was for selling whole cars. Next, what about advertising conflicts of interests (note plural). Regarding putting one back into DC ~ not going to happen. We put a great deal of work into DT, we're not going to scuttle it by going into competition with ourselves. Besides, as far as discussion forums go (amongst members, not commercial) we have one similar in Beefs and Bouquets ~ talk about Fred's ski racks or Performance Car Stereo, or how Japanoid could improve (no slagging please, keep it productive) Dealers read these things and appreciate it when they are offered ideas rather than calling them down, after all ~ dealers have feelings, too.

So we are still talking about it but with Christmas, the kids, deadlines at work and putting out fires in DC ~ we haven't quite got to it yet ~ but it's good to see that you have other options in the meantime. That is an extensive page you posted and it would be good to get something like that better geared for Delicas & Paj's.

Regarding "curbing" ~ on this thread I got to thinking: I thought one could import up to six vehicles per year before one needed a license, so I called up a mate of mine who works with Ford and it turns out I was wrong in my assumption. Apparently if you import just one vehicle to fix up and sell you not only require a dealer's license but also a certain sized lot to sell it on. This strikes me as a control tool for the powers that be but apparently this is currently the case in Canada. Buying a vehicle here and fixing it up might be different, I didn't ask about that but would imagine it would be hard to catch you if you were only doing one or so per year.

Cheers!

Falco.

[glenn]

And now for something completely different. It's been heavy around here this weekend. And this is cool.

[glenn]

I can't resist posting this

[jessef]

Glenn. Classic sig.

As for Falco's innocent, ironic insinuations ..

Finally I would again encourage all moderators/admins never to “engage” members on the public forum in interpersonal disagreements that pop up from time to time.

[pajerry]

What defines a vendor?

Thats something that maybe you could work towards putting to policy. In my eyes, and the eyes of most major auto clubs, if you are a registered business you are a vendor, if not you are making member to member sales in the classifieds section, more or less. I think it is partially upto the vendor too. If lets say 'oddball offroad' files a t4, has website, constant stock etc, they should be a vendor, if not he can advertise like any member in a classifieds section and by PM for group buys, limited lift kits, egr plates etc.

Apparently if you import just one vehicle to fix up and sell you not only require a dealer's license but also a certain sized lot to sell it on.

I couldn't find any regulations or info on any government websites, i did come across a few vehicle forums discussing it but came out with nothing more than heresay, especially if you genuinely do own/drive the vehicle, put money and time into it, and sold it at a higher cost to reflect this.. This 'law' smells of the same anti-JDM sentiments and is poorly documented. Like i said, the auto dealers association wants their potential customers to upsell them to crap cars they can't afford, and the government wants their cut. Is John Doe's restored from frame up LandCruiser only worth the 1000 he paid for the rust bucket after putting 40k into it and is also illegal to re-sell? Doubt it.

Regardless, this is what they're after: http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loca ... lumbiaHome Rolled back odometers, write offs getting restored, or where the buyer is being ripped off. Funny, wasn't ICBC involved with similar scams that went right to the top?


And now for something completely different.. This is what I was up to this weekend..


Anyone want to buy a pajero? lol

[jessef]

This is what I was up to this weekend..

Falco, if you are going to start calling out every member who has sold Delica's on this forum, then do it already. Apply your paintbrush to everyone but get ready to receive some harsh flack back in your direction for dipping into people's personal lives and splitting the members up into categories. This is your sandbox, so we (the sheeple) just follow what you and Mark do although it appears the sandbox owners have allowed the ice cream men to camp out inside the sandbox. The kids love icecream until they eat too much and everyone gets sick of it.

Planting the seed that someone on this forum is a curber/vendor who is not or insinuating that a person has to be a dealer to sell a vehicle in BC is an outrageous and frankly, comical claim.

Falco, I'm assuming you're up and up on your painting business and have always reported every source of income you have done including cash side jobs and delica.ca funds to Revene Canada?

That is called an insinuation or assumption in form of an innocent question. Malice seed planted without direct confrontation with the other person. This is what you have done a few times in this forum to other members.

Heresay. Anyone can say ... 'my friend works here that said' or 'my friend told me he heard from a friend of a famer, who's goat saw a dog driving while yelping out the laws of importing vehicles in BC' thing.

Or, one can be smart before they open their keyboard mouth and slap down some comedy and go direct to the horses mouth; CBSA, the annual limit to import vehicles is 6 per individual basis.

As for buying a vehicle in BC and selling it. There is no limit, however the law does state to report any generated income over X amount depend on your tax bracket, other income sources,etc.. A call to Revenue Canada can give you an idea of where you fit into this as we do not live under a Lenin-style rule where everyone makes the same income.

Before applying assumptions, I would recommend you guys that are interested in this sort of thing to contact CBSA for importation rules and CVSE/ICBC with regards to how many vehicles an individual can own, lease, rent, use for personal/business use and/or sell in any given year.

Both answers are there. The funny one's and the real one's.

Thanks for the laugh (pic below) Nick

[delicat]

Nice dog!

[FalcoColumbarius]

Apparently if you import just one vehicle to fix up and sell you not only require a dealer's license but also a certain sized lot to sell it on.

I couldn't find any regulations or info on any government websites, .......
.....Regardless, this is what they're after....... ......... Rolled back odometers, write offs getting restored, or where the buyer is being ripped off. Funny, wasn't ICBC involved with similar scams that went right to the top?.....

I did a little more research since our last communique (sorry for the delay, had some work to do).
The sight you are looking for would likely be: http://www.mdcbc.com

When I first came upon this site the first thing I noticed was that the URL was a dot com. This didn't strike me as being a URL that the government would use.

Then I found "Click Law" and their description is thus:

• "Motor Vehicle Sales Authority of BC (VSA)
  
  The Motor Vehicle Sales Authority of British Columbia (VSA) is an administrative authority
  delegated by the provincial government to administer and enforce the Motor Dealer Act and its regulations,
  the Business Practices and Consumer Protection Act as it relates to the sale of motor vehicles, and other related statutes. "

So I guess this is a provincial issue, rather than a federal issue.

That led me to this: http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws ... 0_96316_01

So in a nutshell I believe the operative word is "profit". If you have had enough of your motor vehicle and decide to sell it ~ that's one thing. From what I understand from a primary glance of both the act and VSA ~ if you are selling cars to make a profit then you require a license and a premises to sell them from and I believe that license must be displayed in a "conspicuous" position on the premises.

Having read that ~ I wonder how one defines "profit". If your Toyota guy spends 40Gs restoring a vintage $1,000 rust bucket, surely his labour must amount to something ~ but is his sale considered profit or is it payment in kind?

Just a thought.

Falco.

P.S.: I have to acknowledge my mate at Ford who pointed me to where I could find this stuff.

[nxski]

Profit and payment are the same thing. I make my money from contract work, if I make over about $10,000 I pay tax, I also sell petrolabs additive, if I sell enough of this I need an HST number and must pay income tax. We're going to need to find more specific information than 'profit' or 'payment' to decide when someone should be listed as a vendor. Whether you pay yourself a salary or make money off of selling goods you are working for yourself and any income needs to be recorded. If you make more than 'x' dollars you need to be listed as a company / business and must pay taxes on it.

I'm guessing that if someone were selling vehicles for profit they'd probably need to sell at least a few JDM's a year to be deemed a business!? At least in terms of money. If the person did a ton of work on a very cheap vehicle and sold it at a large profit they could in theory make enough off of one sale to warrant being considered a business but I wonder if in case 2 the rules wouldn't be relaxed since it's obvious that this is not a sale that would happen very often.

It seems like there's a lot of confusion around this subject but if it's like any other sale it should all come down to how much the person in question makes off of their combined sales (1-1,000,000) in a calendar year...!?

As an example... I was given a civic as a gift, totalled it, sold it for $1300. Does that mean I made a $1300 profit? Because I was never asked to disclose how much I made off the sale nor did I mention it while filling out my taxes

[thedjjack]

Owned 20+ cars/trucks (motorcycles is another list) in my time and except for a few I bought for parts I typically sell them for more than I paid...

"I am a Curber "

OK so I buy cars that do not run, spend under 100 fix some sensor or something...drive them hard (OK the wife does that) when they need lots of work 2 years later...I sell them fully disclosing problems they have....and make a little money (since they run)....

Funny discussion since Vendor/Dealer/Joe/Jill Public (no offense to Joe or Jill) makes no difference for this site...

What are we fighting about again????

[FalcoColumbarius]

Profit and payment are the same thing. I make my money from contract work, if I make over about $10,000 I pay tax, I also sell petrolabs additive, if I sell enough of this I need an HST number and must pay income tax. We're going to need to find more specific information than 'profit' or 'payment' to decide when someone should be listed as a vendor. Whether you pay yourself a salary or make money off of selling goods you are working for yourself and any income needs to be recorded. If you make more than 'x' dollars you need to be listed as a company / business and must pay taxes on it.

Profit and Payment are not the same thing. If I work for another company as a painter and get paid $X then that is payment, trading time and effort for dollars. But if I am quoting on a job, I am assessing for my wage and whomever else is subbing to me, materials and a profit margin. There is a difference.

Falco.
P.S.:

What are we fighting about again????

We're not fighting, we're having a discussion. Glad you could make it.

[nxski]

Profit / Income is what you put in your pocket.
Overhead is what covers your vehicle, gas, stationary etc
Revenue is the money that comes in that covers your expenses (subcontractors) as well as your profit / income and overhead.

Therefore Payment and Profit or income in the eyes of the government are the same thing but I think the word in question is revenue.

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

Heresay. Anyone can say ... 'my friend works here that said' or 'my friend told me he heard from a friend of a famer, who's goat saw a dog driving while yelping out the laws of importing vehicles in BC' thing.

Or, one can be smart before they open their keyboard mouth and slap down some comedy and go direct to the horses mouth; CBSA, the annual limit to import vehicles is 6 per individual basis.

As for buying a vehicle in BC and selling it. There is no limit, however the law does state to report any generated income over X amount depend on your tax bracket, other income sources,etc.. A call to Revenue Canada can give you an idea of where you fit into this as we do not live under a Lenin-style rule where everyone makes the same income.

Before applying assumptions, I would recommend you guys that are interested in this sort of thing to contact CBSA for importation rules and CVSE/ICBC with regards to how many vehicles an individual can own, lease, rent, use for personal/business use and/or sell in any given year.

Both answers are there. The funny one's and the real one's.

FYI, Here are excerpt from MVSA.
http://www.mdcbc.com/documents/ReportaC ... ry2011.pdf


"If you believe you have information about a person operating as an unregistered motor dealer, you can report them using this form. You may make the report anonymously.

It is a provincial offence to operate as a motor dealer while being unregistered and is punishable by a fine and or imprisonment: sections 35(2) and 35.1 of the Motor Dealer Act R.S.B.C. 1996 c. 316.

Please provide as much information on the following topics where it is known. Add pages if you run out of room or you want to provide additional information or documents. DO NOT enter any private property to obtain information:

The information collected is for investigative purposes and is collected in compliance with the privacy policy of the Motor Vehicle Sales Authority of B.C. and the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act.



MYTH: I can sell five (5) motor vehicles a year without being registered as a motor dealer.
FACT: The exemptions to being registered as a motor dealer are found in the Motor Dealer Act Regulation. There is no exemption for selling five (5) motor vehicles or less within one year.
Examples of exempted persons are:
(i) salespersons employed by a motor dealer;
(ii) sheriffs;
(iii) banks who loan money for a motor vehicle purchase; or
(iv) an auto wrecker who buys a motor vehicle in order to dismantle it.

People have misunderstood a provision of the Motor Dealer Act that deems a person a motor dealer if they sell more than 5 vehicles a year. In law, this deeming provision is only used in aid of prosecuting "curbers" and it is not an exemption. Sales for profit of any number of motor vehicles requires being a registered motor dealer. "


CBSA, CRA, CVSE, police authority and ICBC has nothing to do with defining “curber”.
Anyone who imports and sells JDM vehicles must be licensed here in BC.

Steven