Welcome to the "Last Word Café".

[jessef]

dealing with Mark as Falco will not acknowledge or respond

[nxski]

Anyone who imports and sells JDM vehicles must be licensed here in BC.

So this means that if I import my vehicle and get tired of it sometime down the line and decide to sell it, I'm required to be a licensed dealer? This seems very farfetched, I see what it NOT EXEMPT but I see nothing that says what constitutes someone as being a 'curber'...

[thedjjack]

Funny thing is I would by a car/truck from a curber before I would buy a vehicle from a registered Dealer...

Reality is that a registered Dealer (not trying to be offensive)...Dealers I have dealt with by having to fix the stuff they sold friends makes me think HELL is full of Dealers.

This is the same Lobbying group that tried to stop import of JDM and keep trying to push NA garbage on us....

Curber defined as "Rolled back odometers, write offs getting restored, or where the buyer is being ripped off". Based on this Dealers and ICBC are "Curbers"

[FalcoColumbarius]

Yeah, that was an embarrassing situation for ICBC. I am not all that convinced with the VSA using a dot com extension ~ that sounds pretty corporate to me ~ but then: Insurance Corporation of British Columbia. Cities are corporations... It just seems strange to see dot com on a ministerial authority.

Falco.

[jessef]

Anyone who imports and sells JDM vehicles must be licensed here in BC.

About as funny as anyone who imports and sells their JDM Kimono must be licensed here in BC.

http://www.risingsunimports.com/article ... earkimono/

[nxski]

Looks like we have a doppelgänger on our hands! I think it might be time for a Delica Kimono meet, the two just go so well together!

[rezdiver]

dealing with Mark as Falco will not acknowledge or respond

Last edited by jfarsang on Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:58 pm, edited 11 times in total.

sometimes you gotta take a deep breath before pressing enter. then you only have to do it once.

[tonydca]

Anyone who imports and sells JDM vehicles must be licensed here in BC.

So this means that if I import my vehicle and get tired of it sometime down the line and decide to sell it, I'm required to be a licensed dealer? This seems very farfetched, I see what it NOT EXEMPT but I see nothing that says what constitutes someone as being a 'curber'...

C'mon - reality check here. This falls under the same sort of legality that, for example, technically requires all food vendors in Vancouver to have a City permit. All the way from the brick-and-mortar restaurant serving hundreds daily down to my 8-year running his lemonade stand on the sidewalk. It's "where do they draw the line?".

The MDCBC has a *total* annual operating budget of $4.6 Million shown on their website. For *everything*. And we all know how efficiently bureaucrats spend money

They don't have close to enough resources to chase down everybody hanging a "For Sale" sign in a car window - they'll go after people with a persistent business prescence who are generating a consistent level of complaints from numerous people. Those are the yobbo's they want to shut down (and quote frankly *should* be). Not the individual selling the odd vehicle here and there - especially if their customers are happy.

And deciding whether a person originally planned to re-sell a vehicle when they first brought it in? Intent is very tough to *prove* in court.

Otherwise it just becomes an embarrassment to the MDCBC - "Government meddling run amock".

Deep breaths...

[jessef]

they'll go after people with a persistent business prescence who are generating a consistent level of complaints from numerous people.

Individuals that have operated under different company names and dealer licenses to avoid taxes or while waiting to get a dealer license to operate under a new name. It's common practice among small-med business owners to flee one and create another which makes the loop holes large enough to jump through undetected. That's why you can see 'used car dealer A' operating in Vancouver one year and the next year the same person(s) are operating under 'used car dealer B' in Surrey. It's quite.. how do you say.. slippery and deceitful.

There are many used car dealers that operate with a valid license but are still defined as a curber. You see/hear this plain as day in the media and first hand when visiting or purchasing on car lots regardless of where the vehicle came from, NA/USA/JDM/EURO/SA.

Our local CBC/Province/Sun has done many stories covering legitimate used car dealers operating as curbers. Fortunately in the JDM BC community there are few if any left. ICBC made sure of that a few years ago with a healthy sweep of illegally operating OOP inspection facilities.

These are ways to spot a curber even if they display legitimate business front.

It’s risky to buy from a curber.

They may hide the fact that a vehicle comes from eastern Canada or the US and has serious but hidden rust problems.

The curber may lie about the vehicle’s condition. If you buy from a curber and then have a problem, you’re in a bad situation.

It comes down to what everyone here can agree on. Buyer beware and do your homework before you fork over your cash to anyone.

[pajerry]

Funny thing is I would by a car/truck from a curber before I would buy a vehicle from a registered Dealer...

Too true, eh.

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

Anyone who imports and sells JDM vehicles must be licensed here in BC.

So this means that if I import my vehicle and get tired of it sometime down the line and decide to sell it, I'm required to be a licensed dealer? This seems very farfetched, I see what it NOT EXEMPT but I see nothing that says what constitutes someone as being a 'curber'...

For your understanding,

VSA BULLETIN
JULY 6, 2007

Investigating and prosecuting curbers

The word “curber” is commonly used in the motor dealer industry to describe unlicensed motor dealers who sell cars masquerading as financiers, wholesalers, importers, collection agents, or “private citizens” under the guise of selling their own cars.

The most recent case involved a curber from Williams Lake who claimed he sold cars as a “hobby”.
VSA’s investigation, with the help of the Williams Lake dealers, resulted in the successful conviction of this curber. When the initial warning and ticketing charges by the VSA Investigator failed to deter this individual from his curbing activities, evidence became sufficient to attract the interest of Crown Counsel and subsequent court charges. He pleaded guilty and the Court fined him $2,000. The legislation provides for fines up to $100,000 for individuals and $200,000 for corporations.

"Should Mr. Hanson continue with his curbing activities, the Authority would then apply to obtain a cease and desist order from the Supreme Court under the provisions of the Motor Dealer Act," said Judy McRae, Manager of Corporate Services and Communications. “Subsequent illegal business conduct by this individual would then be deemed as contempt of court order and would be dealt with accordingly.”

In this instance, it was the Williams Lake dealers who tracked the offender and reported his activity to VSA Investigators. Only by demonstrating that previous warnings and penalties had not prevented incorrigible behaviour, was the VSA able to convince the Crown Counsel to proceed with a charge.

The end result speaks for itself: working together, VSA and the motor dealer industry were able to stop this curber.

There are several factors in this enforcement:

"Curbing" is seen to be a "victimless crime" by the prosecutors, too often without aggrieved witnesses willing to give evidence. Prosecutors tend to become motivated on the curber issue, only when odometer tampering, fraud or multiple repeat offences can be demonstrated.

As a result of the compulsory salesperson licensing on June 1, 2004, a large number of individuals who no longer qualified for the legitimate industry, such as those with criminal records, turned to curbing.

Enforcement will continue on all fronts and we would urge the entire industry to unite in the cause to expose the violators. The greatest job we all have is to convince the public of the risk they are taking when they deal with unlicensed people and ensure that they understand that they have no protection under the current legislation.

Private sales represent one third of all used vehicle transactions in the province each year, and many of these are simply individuals selling their own car, motorcycle or recreation vehicle, but those who do it as a business - likely half of all so-called "private" sales - are breaking the law. We must impress upon the public the value in doing business only with licensed dealers and salespeople, and the old adage that if something appears to be too good to be true, there is likely a very good reason.

Steven

[pajerry]

It is what it is, but its really dumb. They get their taxes on used vehicle sales anyways.. the more times its re-sold the more money the govt makes. I wonder how much the dealers association spends on lobbying each year rather than protecting the customers best interest.

[jessef]

I wonder how much the dealers association spends on lobbying each year rather than protecting the customers best interest.

There's your answer; politics. Fortunately, most consumers these days are armed with enough smarts to stay away from curbers, licensed or unlicensed.

We must impress upon the public the value in doing business only with licensed dealers and salespeople

[psilosin]

The most recent case involved a curber from Williams Lake who claimed he sold cars as a “hobby”.
VSA’s investigation, with the help of the Williams Lake dealers, resulted in the successful conviction of this curber. When the initial warning and ticketing charges by the VSA Investigator failed to deter this individual from his curbing activities, evidence became sufficient to attract the interest of Crown Counsel and subsequent court charges. He pleaded guilty and the Court fined him $2,000. The legislation provides for fines up to $100,000 for individuals and $200,000 for corporations.

"Should Mr. Hanson continue with his curbing activities, the Authority would then apply to obtain a cease and desist order from the Supreme Court under the provisions of the Motor Dealer Act," said Judy McRae, Manager of Corporate Services and Communications. “Subsequent illegal business conduct by this individual would then be deemed as contempt of court order and would be dealt with accordingly.”

In this instance, it was the Williams Lake dealers who tracked the offender and reported his activity to VSA Investigators. Only by demonstrating that previous warnings and penalties had not prevented incorrigible behaviour, was the VSA able to convince the Crown Counsel to proceed with a charge.

The end result speaks for itself: working together, VSA and the motor dealer industry were able to stop this curber.

Sounds like the Dealers really saved the day here. Now the citizens of that town can be safe and buy from the big dealerships that car so much about people. You can tell how the dealerships love the citizens because they never use any high pressure sales tactics and always make promises by mouth and not on paper. And the salespeople that have to make a sales quantity quota each month or lose their jobs really love to put the well being of the customer first in front of feeding their own family. The truth is the customers feelings and well being are the LAST thing any dealer cares about.

That dealer propaganda against curbers reads like refer madness. The simple fact that auto sales are regulated like a controlled substance is a joke. High five to the dealerships for getting that made into law...whenever that happened you can imagine everyone involved giggling like a schoolgirl.

[Luna-Sea]

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Right On!