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A rather disheartening find....I think?
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:33 pm
by snelson
Trying to track down why my dash lights have gone out I had to remove the dash speedo tach cluster, and what do I find? A piece of blue duct tape over some sort of access 'hole' just about directly behind the odometer...
So I'm at 95000 right now for a 92 wihich runs great and I think looks great.
But I'm wondering, if you're going to roll back an odometer, why would you bother to put an obvious piece of blue tape over it ?? Not sure what's been going on back there, but if definitely takes a little wind out of the ol sails when you've only had your Deli for a few weeks..... There's also a small piece of tape on what looks like a light bulb hole which would be on the furthest lower left looking at the dash installed.
Weird stuff.
Steve
Re: A rather disheartening find....I think?
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:46 pm
by JMK
Steve,
Ever since I got my Deli although the body, undercarriage, and interior were immaculate, there was the odd little sign that got my attention and raised my suspicions about the 82,000km that were on mine.
Suspecting that perhaps you may have uncovered a symptom that may be present on a lot of Delica's I'll endeavour to take a look at mine as well and see if it's the same. Let's hope as many others as possible in this forum will also do it, perhaps we'll discover a quick way for others who have not bought to check prospective vehicles.
So how hard is it to remove that cluster and get at it? Perhaps you can give us some tips if it would be of any help?
Re: A rather disheartening find....I think?
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:12 pm
by snelson
Super easy to remove the cluster - it's only a 5 minute task. Remove 4 screws to get the dash off, and another obvious 4 more screws to remove the actual speedo/tach cluster. Then remove the 4-5 connectors at the back for the speedo, engine temp sensor, fuel sensor, and tach sensor - they all just pull straight out.
Location of screws:
Two right in front of you under dash above the speedo and tach.
One behind the brake fluid resevoir cover on side of driver side dash.
Use a thin flat screw driver and gently pry out the hazard and rear wiper switches (one piece) - it pops out easily, then unplug the connections and you'll see one more screw in there.
Remove the dash.
Now you can see the speedo/tach cluster and the last 4 obvious screws.
Hopefully all
you'll see next is the back of the cluster WITHOUT the blue tape - or any tape for that matter!!
Re: A rather disheartening find....I think?
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:22 pm
by JMK
Thanks Steve,
While you were there you didn't make an inventory of the number and types of bulbs by any chance? My notes say should be 3 T10 for dash lights, and 20 T5 for the Instrument lights. I bought a few LED's to try out for both so I've got incentive to pull the dash anyway.
Re: A rather disheartening find....I think?
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:23 pm
by snelson
99% sure there were 4 T10s - two at the bottom, and two up top.
Re: A rather disheartening find....I think?
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:47 pm
by The Pinkfingers
JMK wrote:Suspecting that perhaps you may have uncovered a symptom that may be present on a lot of Delica's I'll endeavour to take a look at mine as well and see if it's the same. Let's hope as many others as possible in this forum will also do it, perhaps we'll discover a quick way for others who have not bought to check prospective vehicles.
Yep, unfortunately one of the hazards of buying from Japan. You'd think that a country that has such rigid maintenance guidelines for their vehicles would be a little more intentional about recording VINs and kms when they go in for maintenance.
However... you are safer buying from a dealer in Japan rather than the auction. At the auction, what you see is what you get, and who knows what has been done. However, there are some very rigid guidelines for dealers in Japan, and if they sell a vehicle that has been rolled back, they lose their license. It's not bullet-proof, but it's a safer bet.
Re: A rather disheartening find....I think?
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:18 am
by marsgal42
Sorry to hear about that.
I got dealer service history and Shaken papers with Gumdrop, and while it's all in Japanese, the numbers show a steady progression of odometer readings. The 97,000 km when I took delivery is legit.
My old 1986 VW Jetta just rolled over 320,000 (238,000 when I bought her in 2001). She has begun a new life in the Cariboo where my nieces (ages 16 and 13) will be learning to drive on her. A gas engine, but the VW engines of that era last almost as long as our Delica engines do, and routinely do 450,000 km before they need a rebuild.
...laura
Re: A rather disheartening find....I think?
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:39 am
by JMK
I checked with our guy in Japan that I got my unit from for his feedback and impressions on this issue just out of interest. THe following is what his take is on it, from the Japan side of things:
Cannot comment as I have never pulled a Delica one out.
However...... people automatically tend to this that if a speedo cluster has been removed then the vehicle has had a hair cut.
This is not always the case.
I will give you some examples..
1) Sports cars.... if you change the drivers seat to an aftermarket one the seatbelt light will always display on the cluster. To stop this.... you have to remove the cluster and bulb.
2) Pajero's.... very common problem..... the 4WD green lights that indicate the wheels on the cluster always blow. To replace them.... you have to remove the cluster.
3) Some clusters get dust in them..... to clean.... you have to remove the cluster.
4) Cluster bulbs - sometimes these are out.... you have to remove the cluster to replace or.... some people change the watts of the bulbs.
There are many reasons for a cluster to be removed.... it does not automatically mean for a hair cut.
Duct Tape - could be there for many reasons..... but properly for dust. If the vehicle had a hair cut.... they defiantly would not leave any evidence behind.
The other tape - this will be from factory - for example... clusters can be shared between models. One model might have ABS where the other model.... normally diesel will not. Out of the factory... tape is put across where the ABS bulb would be as it is a blank and to stop dust.
Cheers
Re: A rather disheartening find....I think?
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:18 pm
by mararmeisto
snelson wrote:...A piece of blue duct tape over some sort of access 'hole' just about directly behind the odometer...
Steve
Was going to echo the thoughts from the Japanese fellow--this could be something as simple as covering an unused opening in the cluster.
I've ordered a set of reversed lens LEDs for the instrument cluster (blue and red) and I intend to change out the incandescent bulbs. There were five advertised in the package, and the sale indicated it was for a Delica... also, there was a post on here about the
instrument cluster and how to get at the bulbs (with pictures). Doesn't show how many bulbs on the cluster, but I'm thinking if the guy is selling a package of 5 for the Delica, he's probably on the right track... will find out when I "give Moon Machine a hair cut" (still trying to figure out that reference).
Re: A rather disheartening find....I think?
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:10 pm
by snelson
Hmmm, thanks for the feedback guys...
On the back of my cluster the tape was located where the small squareish maroon coloured piece is on this other members photo, just up and to the left of the second red circle from bottom left.
I didn't have that maroonish piece, just snazzy blue tape!
I like to try and look on the brighter side of things. So for me, I now know where there's a spare piece of duct tape should the camping mattress spring a small leak!!!
Re: A rather disheartening find....I think?
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:19 pm
by mararmeisto
That square maroonish-thingy is a lamp socket (I think). There should be five of them...
Re: A rather disheartening find....I think?
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:24 pm
by snelson
Hey you're right - the angle in that photo was throwing me off.
Well that cracks it then, I'm going back in for further inspection and pics.....
Re: A rather disheartening find....I think?
Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:18 am
by Erebus
Another less sinister possibility is that the previous owner cut holes to add some LED lights to accent the dash.
Re: A rather disheartening find....I think?
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:40 pm
by snelson
Well I finally went back in to take a second look and snap a few pics.
Pic of front of speedo
pic of back showing blue tape
By peeling away the tape you can
just see the numbers on the odometer. Plus all around the little clips that hold on the front 'glass' part of the cluster have little tiny nicks out of the plastic like someone used a little knife to pry open the glass. Which would be pretty easy to do, as I was able to get the top two off with just my thumbs.
Now I'm just curious what is supposed to be in place of the magical blue tape? Anyone volunteering to get into theirs to see what's
supposed to be there? I'd love to know!
I would encourage anyone looking to buy a Deli to bring a screwdriver with them and remove the dash to see if they got the upgraded blue tape feature!? lol. Thing is, I bet there's ton's of others like this! It's so easy to remove, literally takes 5 minutes.
Re: A rather disheartening find....I think?
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:46 pm
by JMK
My body, undercarrige, and interior were immaculate, but I have owned quite a few vehicles in my life and what I'm experiencing in terms of the power train is more symptomatic of vehicles that have 200,000 km rather than the 82,000 that came on the odometer. As I suspect that mine also may have suffered the same fate, owned by a fastidious driver that simply kept it clean and didn't drive off road. What is see is signs of use and either wear or age, rather tha abuse and neglect.
I'm going to do my best to get the time to get that cluster off and see what I can find.