Deep fried thoughts

[sean]

After a good break from the conversion I tackled the air leak issue. Tightened, reclamped and double clamped places that I thought might be the culprit.
Warm the deli up and flipped the toggle switch....stall
So, I think that the air may be in the lines already and may not be coming from a leak. Since I have created a looped return the bubble may be traveling through the system. This conclusion is also reached because when I switch back to diesel and run it for a bit, I can then switch to Veg and run for 2 minutes again and then stall. The diesel may push out the air bubble. Actually, now that I write that I would think that the air would then travel into the diesel line and be gone as it travels back to the tank in the return line.

NOw I am not so sure

But, I am guessing that if I open those injectors whilst on veggie and bleed out the air, it may solve my problem.

Any comments from my very knowledgeable delica lovers out there??

Sean

[Adam]

You're right, any air trapped in your veg system should be flushed out the Diesel tank when you switch back. I think the only reason mine didn't end up stalling was because I added the aux. fuel pump, it really gets the oil moving. Sorry I don't have any good advice, I was certain that I was going to have that problem, and tried not to question it too much when I didn't

[EricN]

I just moved my looped return to feed into the aux pump that fills my surge tank for the very same reason. I had a miserable time getting the air out and even then, there were always little tiny bubbles. I got most of them out by switching to veggie untill I could see them then quickly flip to diesel to purge them there but in the end, I didnt feel comfortable with it. I also had problems sucking in air at the pickup in my tank. I strongly would recomend a surge tank with a pump feeding that. Makes life alot easier.

[BCDelica]

With Josh's install it took a lot of purging with a plunger to finally get the air out. If I remember properly, we sucked through tons of oil. I don't know for sure but it would seem the veggiemax, being an inverted filter, could trap a air pocket and make things miserable. Did't the instructions get you to fill the unit complete? From soooo many cases a aux pump sounds like a cheap and easy install/help. May solve your issues Sean, though it should run without it. Did you pick up a plunger?

Eric your smerge tank is a great idea for the hot fox.

Regards,
Kev

[sean]

Kev, I did pick up a plunger at Lordco and also talked to Ed at Plantdrive. He also suggested the suction gun and told me the procedure he used for the Delica he converted and other vehicles. So I will keep drawing oil till no more air is seen. He says that the top mounted filter does very well dealing with any air and that if I filled it with oil and let the paper soak up as much as it could handle I should be fine.
Ed told me to turn the vehicle on while parked, switch to veg once heated up, and toogle back and forth every 15 seconds, doing this 20-30 times with the RPM's at 2500. Then take it for a spin and switch to Veg and if I see the Tach meter dropping, switch to diesel and then back to Veg. He called this "burping your baby".
Sean

[sean]

Spent 45 minutes drawing with the suction gun and using the drill pump to try to get veg to come through. Still no go . I think that even if I had an air leak it would in no way contribute to the complete lack of oil traveling through the lines and eventually reaching my valve. So I think that I am going to get that Aux pump. It makes sense and like you said Kev, it could solve this problem that is starting to get annoying.

Question? How many 12V things can I run off the battery before I should start worrying about battery drawdown? Or alternator issues?

I believe the super exceed's have 90amp alternator.

Sean

[BCDelica]

Sean, just a thought but what about putting an inline connector between the lines, bypassing the veggiemax, and the sucking oil (and burping your baby; LOL)? Before doing that put one on those inline filters before the IP, just in case. I'm just recommending this as a form of trouble shooting; being so not the mechanic type I try to trouble shoot a problem by checking, or in this case by-passing, each link in the chain.

My brains a little muddled lately from the medication, but I keep thinking about your veggie lines; and the WVO should be flowing easily cause your plumping looks right for a looped system. What's holding back the veggie, it'd be a good idea to find out what's the deal before resorting to a aux pump. BTY, does anyone know what a 4-6 psi aux pump, like Adam and Eric use, draw for amps (or it's wattage)?

On a side note, I'm about 90% better with my rehab the last few days, should I throw some coveralls into my van?

Kev

[Adam]

According to a completely unverified forum post:

the NAPA Facet/Purolator with the P/N 610/1050 pulls 3 amps

So it must be true . I've also read that the Super Exceed has a 90amp alternator so I assume the addition of the Facet pump is not going to cause an issue.

[EricN]

Is there any chance that you have the lines mixed up? Gut feeling telling me that maybe since you mentioned about an error with the return lines that you had fixed, maybe you fixed it wrong? Try pulling off the vegmax filter and see if it is FULL or not. It has to be that. If you arent getting any supply with a suction gun or the drill pump (thats what I used, took about 60 seconds to suck up enough oil to make a mess on my driveway) then I think you are sucking on a return line.
And not to sound like a broken record, but the heated surge tank is awsome. Before the oil was barely warm before it made it to the vegmax, now it is actually hot feeling before vegmax. I am going to start making them and selling them if no one else enterprising enough steps up to do it.

[sean]

I did buy a glass inline filter yesterday to install right before the IP. Should I install right before the pollack valve or after? If after I will run diesel through it also.

As for the lack of Veg through my lines, I think that you are right Kev. I should isolate each part of the supply chain and see what the results are. Pull off the supply line to the veggie max and get fuel at least to that point and make sure it is running smoothly out of the line with no air.
Kevin, I am heading to Victoria tonight for turkey with my family but will be back on early Tuesday afternoon. If I do not have the issue resolved maybe we could tackle it then if you are in town. We could head to the hoist. .

Sean

[sean]

Finally got a chance to try and sort this out. Worked my way back from the fuel tank and at each barbed fitting I took the suction gun and got oil to each link. Then I pulled oil before the valve at the looped return. Hooked it back up and switched to veg. After a few minutes of back and forth I I took her out of the driveway and drove. 3.5 minutes on veg. The glass filter is great to be watching whilst driving. There was veg traveling through but still some air. Then she stalled again and I can't get it to run on Veg. Oh ya, I unhooked my looped return and feed it into a container instead of back into the system to see if I could get air out. It filled up that pretty quick. So oil is moving through. I may just have hit another air pocket that I need to work through. So I am heading back out for round 2. BING BING.

SEan

[sean]

Hello all,
Been awhile since I visited the Delica Site. Family and crunch time on house reno's have put the vehicle on the back burner. I tried many different ways to get rid of the air and realized that it may be bigger than that. So I decided it would be worth the time and money to go and see Bjorn auto in Cobble Hill. He installs plant drive systems.
So after spending 3 hours with Bjorn and going over the whole system, we found out what the problem was. The looped return was creating some sort of back pressure that made the pollack valve open slightly on the diesel side and pulled diesel in, not allowing the veg to come through (Kev, you may recall we had that issue when you and I tried to use the suction gun at my place) The looped return also allowed the air to just travel around the system. Even if I got all the air out now, when I did a filter change I would be back at square 1. Eric, I know you mentioned that to me.
So this is what Bjorn came up with. Put a shut off ball valve before the brass tee on the looped return and tee off the return line and run back to the tank. That is what most people do anyways in other systems. But with the ball valve he said that I could bleed air to the tank when it was fully shut, and crack it a 1/4 when air is out. That way I still get a bit of a looped return and also create some counter pressure to ensure the pollack valve works correctly. We did a test and clamped the return line shut and then created suction in a jar with a shop vac, the veg oil started moving through the lines as we could see through the glass filter I installed right before the Vegtherm. So that was the first time I really had veggie oil through the entire system.
He did not have the fittings but I left his place with a game plan and hope to get all the pieces in the next few days and get it done!.
He wrote me today and had a few after thoughts which I will share.

1. Your Vegtherm is unregulated (no thermostat) and will therefore heat constantly when switched to vegetable oil. To avoid overheating the Pollock valve it would be better to install the Vegtherm after the valve and immediately before the pump. This means it has to be on the two port side of the Pollock valve.

2. I usually install the looped return in a way that it re-enters the intake stream before the filter. It is not essential but it provides additional safety if any metal filings or rubber pieces should come loose.

I also got to see a Mercedes he was converting. He was installing an Elsbett single tank system. He said he likes the plant drive much better.

So I will post when I finally get up and running. ONe benefit to all of this is that I know this system in and out.
Sean

[BCDelica]

Cheers Sean,

That's good you've located what was causing your headache! Not for lack of trying from what I saw a month ago.

2. I usually install the looped return in a way that it re-enters the intake stream before the filter. It is not essential but it provides additional safety if any metal filings or rubber pieces should come loose.

Good point, I like the fact that the return, looped back to the intake stream, provides a little positive pressure to the intake side - which works on suction/lift. Read early on that this looping could reduce the air that wants to get into your lines.

Does Bjorn uses lift pump in his install? If you installed a lift pump, ya know like Adam uses, there wouldn't be a vacuum on the WVO lines from the pollack valve back to the tank. I think (insert disclaimer here). Fluids, electrical, kids, etc, always want to find the path of least resistance. And I think a lift pump would be cheaper, easier and more effective then install a band heater.

And get your self a thermostat, call it cheap insurance or a dummy switch as I was taught a teen rewiring fishing boats.

Kev

[sean]

!!!!!
Up and running! I had quite a big smile on my face this afternoon.

Teeing the looped return with a ball valve worked like a charm and I had not one hiccup or tach drop. The smell was awesome. Though I must admit, I had my father in law check out the smell coming out of the tail pipe. I wasn't sure that the van was running on veg because I now have the thermo switch hooked up there is really no way to tell if I am running veg. It just switches the valve, although I guess I also could touch the VegTherm. It only heats once the valve is open to Veg., now that I think about it. His reply, "it's oil! Trust a nose that grew up eating fish and chips as a staple" He is from Scotland.

Going to see Bjorn in Cobble Hill was money well spent. Very reasonable labour rates, by the way. He put me on the path to completion. Thanks to everyone whos input and advice (Josh), photos (Adam) and CAD drawings (Thanks Eric), and person to person troubleshooting here in Courtenay (That would be you Kev)All of you and others out there helped me reach this goal that I made for myself almost a year ago now, become a reality. A Veggie powered Delica. Could there be a more amazing set up? I think not.

I hope to give updates on the fuel filtering, which I think would a beneficial topic for everyone to talk about.

I also hope that anyone who reads this who is thinking about coverting, feel free to PM me. I am no expert but I learned a lot about the system due to all the trouble shooting I had to do. I guess that is one upside to taking so long to fault find. I can say that now. But if you asked me a few weeks back I would have just been .

Sean

[BCDelica]

I wasn't sure that the van was running on veg

Just wait until you drive several hundred kilometers and you diesel fuel gauge doesn't move!!!

Congrats on running right and achieving greasy spoon exhaust. Way to go!

Cheers,
Kev