Getting Brakes Done

[patty]

So first car, never done the whole brake thing before.I deffinatly need something done to them as they suck alot.anyways my question is, how do you know what needs to be rreplaced, brake pads, brake shoe and or rotor?i hope its just the pads,but how does one know?

im assuming this is somehting a shop should most likley do.has any one done them themself?

[jessef]

First off,

If you've never done brakes and you think yours are 'sucking', then take it to a proficient mechanic or shop to look at.

You may find yourself on the last few legs of braking power which can get scary when all of a sudden they aren't working.

Couple of things about brakes especially on the Delica's being the giant front heavy bricks they are.

1. Always do brakes in sets/pairs (ie. if you replace the rotor and pads on the left, do you the exact same on the right). This goes without question if you want to drive a safe vehicle.

2. Don't cheap out on brakes.

Below is an example of stock brakes gone bad. Caliper was on it's way to being seized. Because of the added heat generated, it put that smack onto the bearings. In turn, the bearings fried. Heat scores on the rotors and uneven wear on the pads are equally as good signs.

The other picture is a comparison of standard stock rotors that 99% of Pajero/Delica's come with (on the left).

On the right, you can see a Raybestos brake rotor. See the difference ?

Stock (left) has only part of the rotor face machined.

Upgraded/Raybestos (right) has then entire rotor machined.

The upgraded brakes rotors, calipers/pads will last you three times as long under the same heat/braking. There have been stats/tests done.

So, my recommendation would be to get a good, solid rotor/caliper set and don't cheap out.

Most of the breaking/stopping power is transferred onto the fronts when you stomp on the pedal.

One more thing. Wheel bearings.

If you have the rotors off already (hub included) then you may as well replace the bearings/seals.

Why ? Look at the pictures. That grease is not supposed to be black. Wheel bearings are maintenance items on vehicles.

Once you have the rotor assembly off, the cost of the wheel bearings and the minimal time it takes to replace them is a lot less than having to replace them after the fact.

More so on vehicles like Delica's that transfer a majority of the braking weight to the front when applied.

There are a number of symptoms when the bearings go as well.

Clicking sounds, grinding sounds both driving straight and/or turning as well as vibrations going up through the axle/frame.

My 2 cents and this comes from a long list of certified mechanic's as well.

There is no way around saving money on brakes. Suck it up and pay for good brakes.

Just passing on useful information.

You can do them yourself if you have some basic mechanical knowledge and the right tools. If you have the wrong tools, it can take you 2-3 hours a side instead of 40 mins per side with the right tools and know-how.

I can't stress enough about the front brakes on the Delica's.

I haven't even touched the rears in this post but those should be checked and machine and/or replaced as well.

Hope this helps.

Jesse

ps. Don't mean to be a downer and you realize the $60 brake pad job just may cost you $800 in rotors/calipers/bearings/pads.. but ya never know.

Without brakes, what good is a Delica running down the road ? I've seen enough brakes fires/rotors shattering, calipers seizing while in a moving vehicle to be very straight forward and to the point when someone brings up the topic.

Good luck. Hopefully you just need a set of pads.

[patty]

so either way i need to go to a shop to get a diagnosis?

[jessef]

so either way i need to go to a shop to get a diagnosis?

my post somewhat hinted at how important brakes are which would be a yes to your q.

Have you had your brakes replaced (front rotors/pads and calipers) since you bought your Delica ?

Jesse

[patty]

i havent, i cant remember if silkroad does that as the delis come in...probably not

[jessef]

At the very least take it to a shop to look at all of your brakes.

50/50 you may need rotors machined and a set of pads.
50/50 you may need the whole meal deal.

If there is no mechanic/shop you trust/deal with, take it to at least two others for an estimate.

Jesse

[rdub]

Hey Jesse just wondering what you paid for the whole shubang ,and where did you purchase ,and if you dont mind? part #s. I whent to do my brakes and found that i still had about 75 to 80% left on the pads but it still feels like its taking to long to stop,I used some brake cleaner ,on the rotors,but there wasnt much differance,it dose not pull to the left or right so im asuming that the calipers are still working ok ,it just dose not seem to stop suddenly.

Rich p.s Silk Road will change brakes if there under 80% ,thats what they told me anyways?

[jessef]

I bought all the parts from the US (partsamerica.com) because I needed them asap and had to wait a few days locally through napa/wakefield.

1992 montero -

front rotors - Raybestos PG Plus 34.99 /ea (96378RGS)
pads - Raymold pads 28.99 / pair (RPD567)
calipers - Raybestos calipers 56.99 / ea (FRC10471 / FRC10472) *69 core charge semi-loaded with hardware/brackets/pins.

1988 Montero -

rear drums - had to grab locally they didn't have 'em
shoes - Pro Grade Raybestos 22.99 / pair (524PG)
cylinders - Pro Grade Raybestos 16.99 / ea (WC37708 L / WC37709 R)

Note that the 92 montero front calipers/rotors are for a GenII Pajero / L400 so you have to cut away about 1" x 2" on the shield so that the new bracket fits in place. It's simple to do with a die grinder but I was a smartass and put the hub assembly together and then figured out about the few inches I had to take off the shield. Had to use a small dremel tool which took forever. Other side was a piece of cake.

This increased the stopping power a lot. A lot meaning I noticed right away. Going from single piston GenI Montero to dual piston GenII Montero. And that was on the Pajero. I can't wait to swap out the tiny single piston's for twin's on the Delica. Being front-heavy, it should make a huge difference dissipating the heat across a larger contact area.

If you don't want to grab the parts down in the US, up here at Napa is good enough. Shop around for the best prices and take note of the core charges as well. You should be able to save a lot $ from shopping around on brakes parts.

I would not put anything on my Delica/Pajero unless it's as good or better than the professional grade Raybestos gear. There is a big difference with machining/tolerances on the rotors compared to average/no-name's and pad material wear as well. This is from 1st hand experience. You can tell just by looking at the two different make of rotors in the pics above. One will start to warp in 6-12 months and generate massive heat scores while the other will last 2-3 times as long because of the material thickness/machining.

I went over (or under) the Delica and made a note of most of the maintenance/replaceable parts. Everything I came across underneath was a direct part#/swap between a pre-1989 Montero and some upgradeable parts (beefier,etc.) post 1992-98 Montero Sport.

Meaning you don't have to import a lot of consumable/maintenance parts from Japan. A lot of what's on the Delica drivetrain can be obtained locally (made in Cnd/US) but I'm sure it's been brought up long ago in this forum.

Hope this helps.

Jesse

[mararmeisto]

Thanks for the quick phone call and all the part numbers on this post jfarsang - excellent information.

Quick question to the group: anyone tried to put disc brakes on the rear? Would it be beneficial?

[jessef]

Thanks for the quick phone call and all the part numbers on this post jfarsang - excellent information.

Quick question to the group: anyone tried to put disc brakes on the rear? Would it be beneficial?

Discs were upgraded on the GenII Mitsu's (Montero/Pajero/L400) when compared to the GenI Mitsu's (Montero/Pajero/L300) :

front/rear discs
wider axles hub to hub
larger hub assembly
larger brake/caliper's on the fronts


I may still put in the 92 montero axles. Haven't decided yet. Too many 'future' projects in my head and so little time.

If I do, then I'm sure I'll be looking at :

driveline shop to modify rear shaft flange to accept the larger dia. u-joint
welding spring perches or using the GenII coils in the rear

To be honest, I'm not sure if discs in the rear would make a difference overall.

Plus's would be less components, longevity from drums -> rotors on the rear.

As for stopping power, the largest upgrade is going from the GenI single piston Montero/Pajero/L300 to the GenII dual piston Montero/Pajero/L400.

I'm going to give Granola a massive going-over including brakes and will snap pictures and post all the cross-reference part #'s between the Delica/Pajero and the NA Montero when I get to it, hopefully in the 2 weeks.

Jesse

ps. Here is the section's you have to cut off the shield to fit the new dualy's. (thanks for the orig pic Bruce)

[Mystery Machine]

I can't wait to swap out the tiny single piston's for twin's on the Delica. Being front-heavy, it should make a huge difference dissipating the heat across a larger contact area.

I've had mine fitted for 3 months now and can confirm that there is a marked improvement in braking all round.

The initial feel isn't drastically different, but if you have to stamp on the brakes, then you quickly realise the extra foothold those pads have on the discs (rotors?)

They also feel more progressive - you can really 'feel' the brakes and as a result can slow up/stop with more control and less of a vague approach. I have also taken the motor on some pretty aggressive hills (Zig Zag hill is a famous brake killer) and have noticed no fade whatsoever.

I can highly recommend this as a brake upgrade on an L300 and as Jesse mentions - you just can't put a price on safety.

[DelicaMark]

Hey jfarsang! Did you have to do anything to the brake lines to make these fit?

Thanks!
-Mark

[Luna-Sea]

Hey Patty,
This might help http://www.delica.ca/forum/l300-front-b ... t-408.html
It was in the Delica faq section,lots lotsa sweet knowledge to be had there thank you all posters.
montero upgrade better than stock
stock better than no brakes
good brakes make for long happy outdoor life!

Jfarsang another Epic post reply,thanks for those part numbers!
Did you mention in one of your posts that you have to keep an eye on the slide pins on the Montero z calipers or is that a thing to watch for in all of em?

[mararmeisto]

And another thing Patty, even if the brake shop is not familiar with the vehicle, they should at least be able to tell you whether the pads, drums and/or rotors need to be addressed. Brakes are brakes - there's no real magic to them. Don't let the guy at Midas try to talk you out of having them looked at.

Should you need parts, there is plenty of info on this forum to get the correct parts for replacement. And the 'upgrade' to the GenII Montero parts for the front are the shizzle - much better stopping power.

[jessef]

slider pins tend to rust on these.

Regardless of stock or the larger brake set, I would replace them with semi or fully loaded caliper that includes the caliper mounting brackets and the slider pins.

Nothing for the lines. It will depend on the calipers but some you may not reuse the L-bracket mount. Either you can bend it or fabricate a new one or don't use it at all. Makes no difference.