Ontario Insurance Nightmare - No more RH Drives in Ontario?

[thedjjack]

Ontario insurance is impossible on a good day.

I bought my Sister a Dodge Van in BC (1979 van with full rv interior) she drove back to Ontario and it was a nightmare to get insurance. It was an RV and had Propane!

Took her a few years to find insurance that was affordable...

Propane inspection plus upgrades and full appraisal of value were required (van has 25,000 original KM)...

I do not miss private insurance.

[ezzy]

I just got off the phone with Desjardins and got a quote for $98/month!! SWEET!!

Here's the story: first guy told me they don't insure RHD vehicles. I asked him to double check and he came back on and said that they're in the middle of changing their company policy to deny RHD's, but that it hasn't been confirmed yet, and that they would be able to provide a quote. (For now). He transferred me to someone more experienced and she was actually very helpful and provided me with the $98/month. (Basic coverage). She explained that you only need a Vehicle Condition Report if you're going to get collision & comp. Otherwise, all I need is an appraisal, driver's abstract, copy of ownership, and a signed Ontario Application Form. (Provided by them). Pretty straightforward! I was very surprised! This sure beats the crap out of the $230/month quote from State Farm! Now I need to buy a van!

[Feds]

Looking for assistance...

I had planned on going with The Personal, as I qualify through OSPE. The lady on the phone told me that they no longer insure RHD. I'm going to check with some of my local brokers, but if anyone wants tom inbox me with a tip, I'd appreciate it.

[nishby]

I insured through Cooperators 3 years ago. No hoops, no hassles. As far as I know it's still not a problem.

Shane.

[92pajero]

Insurance is not that difficult gentlemen, hoops? A simple safety/veh inspection, no etest after 20 years of vehicle age, and an Ont license for the registration. Yes not all offices do licenses in conjunction with veh registration. The faurther out of Toronto the cheaper the insurance. BTW most expensive insurance in ontario is Brampton. Yes private insurance and yes you can go through a broker or you can contact insurance agencies on your own such as wawanesa, state farm, personal, and a whole plethora of others. The broker is supposed to find the cheapest for you but remember they are not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts they are out to make money. I prefer the personal, used them in AB and now in ON, you can also use wawanesa they both do RHD vehicles and cheap. i pay less than 100 a month.

[AJ Boombox]

I can identify with the problem of insurance and registration for a RHD in Ontario.

1. Pre-purchased insurance from my current broker here in Ottawa based on the approximate asking price of the Delica and my personal driving record. Vehicle details and VIN required. Appraisal also required within 30 days.

2. Flew to BC to buy the Delica. Went to ICBC to get 15 days of temp. transport insurance and permit. ($197)

3. Drove back to Ontario, registries in Thunder Bay was very helpful but it was a slow process. Make sure that if you buy from an importer like I did, that it is clearly documented that you have paid HST already. If you buy from a private seller, set aside ( I think 8% of the purchase price?) money to cover taxes upon transfer to Ontario. I needed to go to a mechanic to confirm the VIN because the number created a flag for "suspicious VIN". Canadian Tire didn't charge for this; it is simply a statement on the mechanic's shop letterhead stating that it is the correct VIN. With these steps completed I could buy plates and a temp sticker to continue on to Ottawa. They had to make several calls, but it all came to less than ($30) in the end. Be polite and patient at all times.

4. Safety and E test. ($130)

5. Registries office. Present insurance slip, ownership papers/bill of sale, safety, e-test, purchase your registration stickers.

6. Appraisal for insurance purposes ($197) Gary Schroeter of Automotive Appraisal Services, Ottawa was very good; thorough, professional, and informative.

7. Submit the appraisal results and completed registration to your insurance broker for their records.

8. Done.


I think that most RHD owners will need to use "Facility" insurance, at least for a while. I have 18 years driving experience with no claims or accidents, no tickets, and the cost of my insurance is still disappointing. ($1900 comprehensive). Popular belief is that, fair or not, Ontario may eventually go RHD free, like Quebec has already. If you really want a Delica, getting one now, with a realistic idea of what it will cost you, means that at least yours will be "grandfathered" into the province. Things to consider...

Best Luck;
AJ

[Feds]

I haven't solved my insurance dilemma yet, but I just wanted to chime in on what is above.

We do not have to sit back and let Ontario go RHD free. I've been through this before with motorcycles, snowmobiles, and "modified" cars. Something new hits the market, the insurance industry reacts with "Sorry, we can't insure it", and people get organized, tell the good side of the story, and changes are made. Good organization has allowed ATV and snowmobile riders to create a network of trails that includes public roads.

How many of you have written your MPP? Just an email with something simple talking about why you chose your vehicle, what makes it better than the alternatives, and especially a note about better mileage/lower carbon emissions.

Then talk about the difficulties with insurance, and how it is totally ridiculous that you can find cheap insurance for just about anything, but because a vehicle has its steering wheel 2' to the right, it is uninsurable.

Actually, here's an abridged copy of what I have sent to my insurance company. A similar letter went to my mpp. Why don't we take it as a starting point for a form letter for people to send to their MPPs, cc-ing the ministers of transport and finance?

____________________________________________________
Good Afternoon,

I hold policy number XX for my vehicles, as well as separate policies for my home and motorcycle. My wife and I have been clients for nearly 8 years, and have never made a claim on any policy in that time.

I recently purchased a Mitsubishi Delica van. I selected it because it has enough room for my growing family (and their large car seats), dual airbags, anti-lock brakes, all-wheel-drive, and a high efficiency (low carbon emission) diesel engine. I contacted one of your representatives to inquire about a quote for insurance, and was told that you will not provide insurance for this vehicle because it is Right Hand Drive.

I am extremely disappointed in this response as you have provided me with insurance on many vehicles including:

- A 1968 Volkswagen Fastback; which did not have seat belts in the rear seat, and only had lap belts in the front. And whose swing axle rear suspension gave it a high propensity to spin out or roll over.

- A 1998 Nissan Pathfinder. This vehicle had a design defect so serious that Nissan recalled it and purchased it back from me, as it failed in such a way as to prevent the driver from turning the steering wheel.

- A 2007 Suzuki Motorcycle. You still provides me with insurance on this vehicle (at a very good rate), despite the fact that it lacks such basic occupant protection as a roof, or doors, or static stability.

However, the reason I am most disappointed with the decision not to provide insurance on the Delica van is that you claim to be a leader in environmental responsibility. The main reason I chose to purchase this van is that it is capable of returning 25 MPG while providing three rows of seating and room to carry the items associated with a pair of toddlers. Your policy of not insuring RHD vehicles would force me into a 320 hp, 15 MPG Suburban, or a 260 hp, 17 mpg Sienna. Driving a 125 hp, 25 mpg Delica instead of either of these vehicles would cut my carbon emissions from driving by 30 to 40%.

While I understand your right to refuse insurance to those drivers and vehicles that present an unacceptable risk, I feel that the total ban on Right hand drive vehicles is unfair. Any of the studies on the subject show that the risks associated with right hand drive vehicles are far less than the variation of risk between different types of left hand drive vehicles. That is to say, why is a left hand drive Nissan Titan an acceptable risk when the IIHS found it 300% more likely to fatally injure it's driver than the average vehicle, while any right hand drive vehicle is unacceptable because the ICBC found it 40% more likely to be involved in a crash, but no more likely to induce injury.

[jessef]

very concise letter. If you have not already, I encourage you to continue the fight against anti-RHD provincial gov't at ivoac.ca

[Feds]

Yeah, I am starting to get warmed up on this. I am on IVOAC eventually, but I have found it pretty dead lately.

I'd like to see a couple of things: Letters to MPP's, and appropriate ministers. Articles in local newspapers focusing on the environmental and family transportation aspect, and everyone who is having trouble getting coverage going to their insurers Ombudsman, than to the FSCO Ombudsman.

We don't have to accept Facility insurance. The risk data on these vehicles is out there, it's just a matter of telling the right story to the right people.

[Luisito]

Oh, my.

I'm thinking of moving to Ottawa, driving my L300 over and registering it there. Sounds like I'd be in for a bit of a ride if I did that... unless things have dramatically improved since the last posts?

So if I have read right, I should talk to Bonsai Rides and probably Desjardins as the courses of action most likely to succeed? And if that pans out, how much am I going to be paying? Can I even drive into Quebec with it?

Or perhaps I should just sell my baby...

L

[Feds]

You will always be able to get insurance, you'll just have to pay. I've got a pretty clean record, and I'm ~$2400 for the year. My LHD car was ~$700. Last I heard, desjardans had dropped RHD, leaving Facility as your only option. Best bet is to talk to as many brokers as you can, maybe see if any of the other Deli owners will chime in (I'm with Facility).

Once you are insured in Ontario, you can drive anywhere. The quebec ban is on new registrations (i.e., new license plates for people who live in quebec), not on operation.

Mechanics may be tough in Ottawa. You're 5 hrs from Toronto, so parts will likely be mail order.

[Luisito]

I'm selling Moon Unit - too much hassle if I live in Ontario, let alone Quebec - just put an ad up in the Delica Trader.

L

[Drumster]

This entire situation smells like underhanded CADA monopolists at work.

[fishslapper]

So after 7 blessed years in bc my wife got relocated to bloody ontario. We are both from ontario originally so i know what to expect weather wise.

I was not fully prepared for this insurance nightmare though.

I have wasted the entire day hunting for insurance and arguing with people!!


Apparently dejarden as of 2012 has stopped insuring rhd.

If you were able to obtain insurance in 2011 you are grandfathered in so consider yourself blessed !!

[Feds]

You'll always be able to get Facility insurance. You just have to pay.

Also: if you are self employed, or use your car for work, it's easier.