HELP! On a trip away from home and my Deli is not starting.

Off Piste · Post by **Off Piste** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:29 pm

Hey Eveyone,
In a pickle at moment and looking for suggestions.
Drove over to Tofino for New Years and the Van was dead this morning when we hoped in.
It clicks over once but not the second time, power to the van but no second click and it doesn't turn over.

I have a manual bypass which is doing nothing, thought maybe the ecu had stopped working.
I can start the van going fine but I had to run power straight to the bus bar from an emergency booster power jumper box.

The box doesn't have enough juice to jump it attached to the batteries directly.
I checked the battery voltage and they both check out fine so I'm thinking it's not the batts but somewhere the power is not
getting to the bus bar even from the manual bypass switch.

For now I have to start the van by using the emergency booster box but that won't work much longer.
Thoughts? I was going to see if I can find a voltmeter and see if power is actually getting to the bus bar but
does anyone know where the air gap might be on power getting from the ecu to the bus bar?

Thanks very much and Happy New Year, hopefully this problem will be solved or my new years is going to suck.

Phil

Post by **FalcoColumbarius** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:47 pm

Battery voltage can appear fine when there's no amperage in the batteries, which is what turns the motor over. With the recent change in the barometric pressure I'd be inclined to clean the battery terminals and cable ends and get a boost from someone. A change in the weather can put a thin coating of corrosion that stops the batteries from charging. Hope this helps... smiles.

Falco.

Post by **Morganizer** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:26 pm

Having just worked on the glow-plug system...

http://www.delica.ca/forum/rebuilding-t ... -4139.html

...there's probably more information than is useful for your emergency, but it may tell you something about how the system is supposed to work, when it's working, so you can troubleshoot it yourself.

#1 -- Check that the wire from the Glow Plug Relay is secure on the glow plug. I suspect my own troubles started when this wire vibrated loose over time. If it has been loose for a while, corrosion has gotten in between the wire and the bus bar, and now presents a high resistance to the Glow Plug Relay. If that connection is tight, move on...

From your description, if you're hearing the Glow Plug Relay click, then the ECU is working, and the solenoid in the Glow Plug Relay is working too. So the "air gap" must be the switch inside the Glow Plug relay. Take off the hatch cover behind the driver's seat (the same one that conceals your power steering reservoir) and you'll find the Glow Plug Relay on the wall towards the rear of the vehicle. There's also a starter relay right next to it. Not sure which one? Lift the passenger seat and tug on the glow plug wire, and trace it back to the Glow Plug Relay. It's only about a foot and a half long, so not hard to do.

Turn the key to start the van. Confirm that the relay clicks. Short across the two large terminals; you can probably do this using a jumper cable. This should apply power to the glow plugs and let the engine start. Let the van warm up for 3 minutes and remove the jumper cable. Be careful doing this, because the terminals are at +V, and everything around it is ground: the metal wall, the mounting bolts, the relay body. If you short the terminals to ground you'll probably fry your ECU. Read: if your jumper cable pops off, it's going to fall on something that's grounded, and spark. Make sure it's secure.

Now, if that works, and you're feeling like adding a little flourish to your vacation, you can rebuild the Glow Plug Relay (preferably before drinking). It does not require any fancy tools. If you have a socket set, it will make getting the Glow Plug Relay out of the vehicle easier. Once on the bench, just remove the 4 bolts holding the halves of the housing together, and make sure to take it apart in such a way that you can put everything back together in the same order and orientation. It's not a complex device, and I think everything only fits one way.

What you'll likely find is either buildup of black soot on the contacts, or the contacts are pitted. You may be able to rotate the contacts, so that a pit begins forming in a fresh spot. This 'rebuild' will last another 100,000km. Also, you'll find a bunch of copper powder inside, from the contacts slapping against each other all these years. Wipe that out with a rag.

Remember, your best friend in this whole process is your iPhone; take photos of each step, and consult them to put everything back together properly.

Off Piste · Post by **Off Piste** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:43 pm

Morganzier you ROCK!
I started thinking the same sort of thing.
Earlier today I took a look behind and under the Driver's seat where the ECU and the manual bypass are connected.
I'll check the wires again to make sure they are all secure and if they look good then I might attempt your FIX.

I can apply power directly to the bus bar via the " Emergency Juice Box' and she starts up no problem so for now that works.

I was thinking exactly what you suggested, there must be an 'air gap' between the ecu and the bus bar.
I think I'll wait till the morning light to tackle it anymore.

Cheers, Will keep you posted.

Much Thanks.

Post by **Morganizer** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:43 pm

So?...Enquiring minds want to know!

Off Piste · Post by **Off Piste** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:53 pm

Ah yes. Well, I dove into pulling the glow plug relay out.
First I checked the plugs again to make sure they were all tight.
They all seemed tight and I thought I would try the starter one more time...and bingo.
Double click and fired up no problem.
So that put a hold on me having to pull the Glow plug relay out for check up.
I can only think that somewhere a wire had come loose. If it does it again I will check the same things and if it
still doesn't go then I will pull out the Glow Plug Relay thanks to the great info from " Morganizer ".
I did takes photos of what I was checking so I'll look at posting them so people know what to try if they get in the same trouble.
New Years was saved and the trip from Tofino to Vancouver went smoothly despite that sinking feeling as we waited for the second click on start ups.
Thanks again "Morganizer" for the help and to all the great info on this site.

Off Piste · Post by **Off Piste** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:15 pm

OK so the problem is back again. 1 click then nothing. No Power to the Bus Bar. Even the manual bypass does nothing.
I can get it going by applying power directly to the bus bar via a battery booster box.
So I pulled the Glow Plug Relays out, opened them up. They both looked good. Tested them. They both click and test fine.
Then I put them back in, hooked them up and Broooom, 2 clicks and it starts up no problem. That's from a cold start from the previous day.
Closed it up and then..... dead again. 1 click then nothing. This is the 2nd time I've gone thru all of this.
I'm thinking it's the 2nd Relay.

You can see in the photos. I get constant power to both relays, power to the middle line when the key is turned and a click from
Relay # 1. No click from Relay #2. I checked the starter relay and it checks out but will test again.

If it's the water temp sensor my thought is it should still allow the manual bypass to work.
The Manual Bypass has worked since it was installed.
If it's the Starter Relay would that stop the Manual Bypass?
The ECU is working and shouldn't stop the Manual Bypass.
If it's the glow plugs why is there no power going to the Bus Bar at least?
Wires are all hooked up snug to the bus bar.

So I am a bit stumped. A loose wire? It works sporadically.
I'll try to switch the relays to see how they behave.

Am I correct that "A" has power from the Battery.
When "C" receives power as the Ignition is turned then "B" sends power to the bus bar.

Same for "E,F,D". The 2nd sounding click is when the power is turned off to the glow plugs?

It doesn't appear that power is transferring to "D".

Thanks for any help out there.

Off Piste · Post by **Off Piste** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:41 pm

Ahh this thing is killing me! I know this topic has been talked about all over the place but I'm about to give up.

Deli still dead.1 x Click from both glow plug relays but then that's it. I'm about to give up but I don't want to incase an issue like this comes up again and I'm hours away from anywhere.
I've read all the posts,photos and schematics posted by everyone, Fantastic Info by the way...but yet nothing.

Here's a recap.
1. Problem started randomly while away from home Vancouver Island. 1 click no start, no power to busbar. Could start by jumping power to the bus bar directly from a battery booster box. Then problem fixed itself randomly. 2 clicks and start up.

2. Got home it was fine for a good dozen starts, Then no good. 1 click no power to bus bar. I opened up the glow plug relays and they both tested fine. Pulled the ECU and no leaks.Hooked it up and 2 clicks and it started, once. 2nd time and again 1 click no power to busbar.

3. Checked the batteries. Both over 12v. Pulled them and charged them up till FULL. Put them back and same as before, 1 click no power.
Tested the amps on the batts and the draw on the glow plug relays and that's where it get's funky.
Batts don't drop much of anything when key is turned over, Glow plug relays are live on 1 post each with over 12v but when they click over the power on each live post drops to zero. So tested the relays again with a seperate 12v circuit setup from my charged 12v batt box, they click and transfer power to the other post (which would send juice to bus bar).

Checked the wire from glow plug relays to busbar and they are good.

I have a manual bypass as well but I've come to conclusion that something is stopping the power being drawn from the battery when the glow plug circuit closes. e
1. Bad Batteries? 4 years old , charged up, over 12v but unable to test Cold Cranking Amps as they system isn't pulling anything.
2. Bad Inline fuse? Can't see anything bad , tested all I could find from Batteries, Is there a fuse somewhere I'm missing, and
how are the Glow Plugs gettings 12v from the batt before the click but then it drops to zero?

I'll give it 1 more try before I give up.

Any thoughts before I drown my mechanical failure with beer?

Firesong · Post by **Firesong** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:35 am

Question. Your starter turns over fine correct?

Post by **Big-Bird** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:14 pm

If you haven't seen this recent thread it would be worth a read.....

http://www.delica.ca/forum/not-starting-15719.html

Off Piste · Post by **Off Piste** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:28 pm

http://www.delica.ca/forum/not-starting-15719.html[/quote]

Success! Sunday sunshine brought a breakthru. Literally.
So knowing that there was 12 volts heading to the glowplug relays but it would drop to 0 volts when the relays clicked in
and knowing that if I jumped power directly to the bus bar it would start I started the search again.
Batteries volts checked out. I started again at the battery and worked forward from there.

I had checked the fuseable link already and it tested good but this time I unwrapped the whole wire and found the culprit.
Someone earlier in life had taped it up because they had done a shitty patch job on the link. Beneath the layers of tape I found a
wire held together with a few strands.
Enough to allow a little power to move thru but when the relays pulled more the wire would heat and melt apart, cooling it would connect just enough to close the circuit again.
Some new 12 gauge wire and reused connections from the old wire and she fired up first try. 2 clicks.
I unplugged the wire which caused the same symptoms , plugged it in and BINGO!
2 full days of driving and dozens of start ups no problem.

Just read the last post on the other topic of not-starting and they had almost the same find! Hurray!

Here are some photos of the culprit. Thanks to everyone and the fantastic info on this site.

Cheers.

Post by **Morganizer** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:04 pm

Ha ha, reminds me of the #1 rule about used cars: "bad mechanics hide their mistakes with electrical tape." It's amazing the nonsense you find when you peel it off.

Glad you got that sorted out, and got some peace of mind actually knowing what the root cause was. Now every time it starts you'll get a little surge of satisfaction!

Delica Canada | Mitsubishi Van Club