Welcome to the "Last Word Café".

[Mr. Flibble]

Jesus says in the Gospel According To St. Thomas:

• "But the Kingdom is within you and it is without you. If you know yourselves, then you will be known and you will know that you are the sons of the Living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you are in poverty and you are poverty."

Where do youy find the gospel of St. Thomas? I can't find it in my Bible...

The Gospet of St. Thomas is one of the Gnostic Gospels that was not included in the Bible by the Council of Nicea. There are quite a few Gospels and Epistles that never made it into the Bible.

Check out the works of Bart. D Ehrman

[FalcoColumbarius]

To start with Mr. Flibble, I would like to thank you for taking the time to reply to my posts, that last one took some time and I also appreciate you keeping the colour in my words. I find these days fewer and fewer people practise the fine art of dialectics. Your arguments are a breath fresh air, even if they do have a faint scent of horse feathers with them....

I don’t think that there is any Unified Field like that – that it simply does not exist. There is no evidence for one, so why should one exist?

Like most things in science which follow a pattern, a thought becomes an idea; an idea becomes an hypothesis; an hypothesis becomes a theory ~ and a theory becomes a law. The latter I find a little unrealistic, the concept betrays the word, somewhat. But this has been the way of things since God was a Catholic, for instance the flat Earth ~ a proven fact ~ until someone proved otherwise (and no it was not Chris Columbus). However, I thought that Einstein's Unified Field Theory was still pretty much accepted by the science community. Earlier you mentioned Newtonian Mechanics ~ you know that that theory is limited to physical world we walk around in and some aspects of astronomy but doesn't work at the atomic level, eh? Causality has almost become purely a philosophical term. But this is really what we are talking about. "Seek and thou shalt find". If enough people believe in something it becomes the truth. Goebbels was onto this and the current American policy appears to have followed suite.

• “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

These words, ironically, have been reiterated a number of times by American officials. Can't tell you the name but I saw it one time on television. I was stunned.

I digress. This phenomenon is still real, as with the "The 100th Monkey". Even if you don't subscribe to Einstein's theories ~ many people still do and you find yourself paddling upstream. This is what the 2012 issue is about, a collective conciousness.

The reason Men have nipples is because the embryo form defaults to a female form, that, and as you might guess we share a good deal of parts otherwise with women. It is simply the way natural selection works on the genes.

Yes, a template. Are you suggesting that this complex systematic division is by fluke?

Except those golden rules you cite are the very things discussed and predicted by science. The very tool that finds these ratios and explains them.

So, my standards of Evidence refer specifically to scientific merit and the methods of performing those observations.

I try not to think with my gut – it is usually full of s**t.

I respect your opinion.

The fact of the matter is that many cultures believed lots of things, just because cultures believed things it does not give them any merit or reason to follow what they believed is true. Does it merit interest as something to study? Sure. Is it true? Not always so.
There is no more reason to give credit to the times of these dates than there is to the idea of Santa Claus.

Santa Claus.... Coca Cola did well with that one. The origins of Father Christmas, mind, there is truth in that. Similar to the story of Robin Hood, there was more than one, the idea being the giving spirit of Father Christmas based on a guy in northern Europe whom during the Halcyon Days would ride around in a sleigh, distributing treats to the children in the villages. Again, the stories of 2012 reflecting collective conciousness of what is real ~ for that reason I am really glad that the religious majority are not fundamental Christians.

Father Christmas

I would need to see citation of this, I have heard nor seen any evidence of this being true. I know for a fact that the Mayan Calendar had some major issues with dates, just like many others. As it is, our current calendar as modified by science is considerably more accurate than the others.

Wikipedia, again: Maya Calendar
There is also the National Geographic Magazine, however they also claim that the Mayans have disappeared, but both your friend and myself have seen them since so not sure about the NGM's credibility on that count.

Is that why October is now the tenth month and September is the ninth? A little stitch here, a little stitch there... Insert a month or two for the fair haired emperors? Apart from the arrogant Romans you also have had the Church screwing with it in order to establish their power and much of that brings us back to Santa Claus.

Except we now live longer, and we are less violent, we have fewer diseases. The only thing they had was a different culture. Other than cultural differences, there were no real advantages to be had by their society.

The average world life expectancy today is 67 years, which is an all time high, at least in numbers. But what about the quality of life?

You say we are less violent: Perhaps we don't scream as much when going into a charge and we are not hacking as much with axes and swords but have you seen what a 50 calibre machine gun can do to the human body? There are not only more wars today than at any other time in history but there are more kinds of wars. Take psychological warfare, used to be wear a big hat, a big cod piece and scream really loud. Now it is to a whole new level of manipulation.

Fewer diseases? Please...... Are you serious? We are all seriously diseased. Apart from the plague, leprosy, &c. ~ which are still around by the way ~ we have all manner of new diseases. And the germs are clever little buggers, they keep changing. Some of those wonder drugs aren't working as well these days. City folk get sicker and sicker because they are so obsessed with antibacterial soap. Just like a good hockey player ~ a strong immune system needs practice. George Carlin is not the only person to say that. Not all diseases are to do with germs, consider television ~ the new opium of the masses, or the internet ~ truly a heroine for the masses (sic). Our food is toxic. The water is poisoned.

One real advantage to ancient societies was peace and quite. I was subjected to a revelation by my father once. During a discussion about the state of the world, whilst passing the port he interrupted me and said:

• "I don't envy your life. When I was your age I had three choices: Army; Navy; or Air Force. You are so inundated with options........ I don't envy you"

That is regarding only one generation. To reiterate Krishnamurti: "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Well, given that my friend has been studying the Maya since he was a kid, speaks and reads fluent Mayan, and spends half of his life in Mexico with the Maya, I would say that in his “ivory tower” he has a pretty fundamental understanding of Mayan culture and ancient culture. I would certainly take Marc’s word on the Maya over someone whom you met in a Coffee shop who claimed to be an authority on the matter.

You're right. I met that guy once. I'm sure Marc knows much. The "ivory tower" comment was referring to snobbish bookworm types who never see the light of day but consider themselves the authority of wisdom.

Falco.

[FalcoColumbarius]

Jesus says in the Gospel According To St. Thomas:

• "But the Kingdom is within you and it is without you. If you know yourselves, then you will be known and you will know that you are the sons of the Living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you are in poverty and you are poverty."

Where do youy find the gospel of St. Thomas? I can't find it in my Bible...

The Gospet of St. Thomas is one of the Gnostic Gospels that was not included in the Bible by the Council of Nicea. There are quite a few Gospels and Epistles that never made it into the Bible.

Check out the works of Bart. D Ehrman

I think a better phrase would be "Censured from the Bible". It was something like 56 books removed from the Bible? Which I think is also why over the four synoptic gospels Christ is crucified in three different places and why his marriage in Cana is only mentioned in one (St. John). The Romans kept exemplary records, I believe the ballot for the divinity of Jesus was 218 to two, in favour. Prior to the First Counsel Of Nicaea he was just your regular everyday messiah.

One source would be: http://www.gnosis.org/library.html
This is by far the best source I have come across. It has been available on the World Wide Web since 1994.

Falco.

[psilosin]

This whole thread reminds of a tale I once heard from a man in Srebrenica back in '95 that goes a little something like this:

Did I ever tell you about the man who taught his a-hole to talk? This man worked for a carnival you dig, and to start with it was like a novelty ventriliquist act. Real funny, too, at first. After a while the a-hole started talking on its own. He would go in without anything prepared and his a-hole would ad-lib and toss the gags back at him every time. Then it developed sort of teeth-like little raspy in-curving hooks and start eating. He thought this was cute at first and built an act around it, but the a-hole would eat its way through his pants and start talking on the street, shouting out it wanted equal rights. It would get drunk, too, and have crying jags nobody loved it and it wanted to be kissed same as any other mouth. Finally it talked all the time day and night, you could hear him for blocks screaming at it to shut up, and beating it with his fist, and sticking candles up it, but nothing did any good and the a-hole said to him, "It is you who will shut up in the end. Not me. Because we dont need you around here any more. I can talk and eat AND poop." After that he began waking up in the morning with a transparent jelly like a tadpoles tail all over his mouth. This jelly was what the scientists call un-D.T., Undifferentiated Tissue, which can grow into any kind of flesh on the human body. He would tear it off his mouth and the pieces would stick to his hands like burning gasoline jelly and grow there, grow anywhere on him a glob of it fell. So finally his mouth sealed over, and the whole head would have have amputated spontaneous - except for the EYES you dig. Thats one thing the a-hole COULDN'T do was see. It needed the eyes. But nerve connections were blocked and infiltrated and atrophied so the brain couldnt give orders any more. It was trapped in the skull, sealed off. For a while you could see the silent, helpless suffering of the brain behind the eyes, then finally the brain must have died, because the eyes WENT OUT, and there was no more feeling in them than a crabs eyes on the end of a stalk.

[solanoid]

I like that story,

Ill have to tell it to the kids for bedtime.

I think its a bit out of context though, because Falco brings up some great points that should really be brought to light. Thats something that bothers me about the "good book" it has been altered so much over the years in order to maintain its appeal to the commonfolk (and to further manipulate people)

The Quran has not been changed once

[konadog]

Ahh the lads of Monty Python... We could have a thread all about them - they formed the foundation of the humour of my youth!
Thanks for the you tube posting primer Falco :)
Python had lots to say about religion...

[FalcoColumbarius]

This just in: A special report regarding violins on the internet.

Special Report

Falco.

[ealanm]

There are not only more wars today than at any other time in history but there are more kinds of wars.

Not per capita, which is what matters. In other words, your odds of being injured or killed in war are less today than they were even 50 years ago, and much less than in previous centuries. Perhaps surprisingly, with all its barbarity, the twentieth century was relatively peaceful, by that measure.

As a member of a first-world country (to use a somewhat outdated expression), you are also vastly less likely to die a violent death than at any previous time in recorded history. A man in middle-age Europe, for example, had about a one in six chance of dying at the hands of another man. Now it's orders of magnitude less than that.

[FalcoColumbarius]

Ealanm, so glad you could join in. Are you familiar with a fellow by the name of Marshall McLuhan? He had this quote about statistics. I can't find it off hand so I'll have to paraphrase it: Statistics to a political cause is like a lamppost to a drunk ~ often used for propping things up rather than for enlightenment.

My argument is more of a 1984 nature where, although our boys are "over there" protecting my liberties, there is a war going on here. War on crime, war on terror, war on you.... For instance in 2002 there were 629 "gun related" homicides in Los Angeles alone although some of these were out and out murders, more of them were gang related. That's not to mention say knife related killings, or others just guns. Then there is mental games happening. How does one define war? When two armies line up and oppose each other on a field? Are there any wars happening in Africa currently? Or is it just a lot of Kalashnikovs going off in civil disputes... The North Vancouver detachment's newest police station is strategically designed to withstand a siege ~ it's a fortress built with the same principles as the Tower Of London. Why?

Statistically, I must take your word for it. Less people dying at the hands of other people? Sure, I'll buy that. But there is still more wars happening today than prior to the Great War To End All Wars.

Falco.

[DelicaDJ]

*bump*

[ealanm]

Are you familiar with a fellow by the name of Marshall McLuhan?

Yes, I lived down the street from him and have read several of his books. I realize that it's popular to by cynical about statistics, but we also ignore facts at our peril. The solution to misused statistics is not to ignore or denigrate the use of statistics, generally, but to learn to understand them so that you're not fooled by their misuse.

My argument is more of a 1984 nature where, although our boys are "over there" protecting my liberties, there is a war going on here. War on crime, war on terror, war on you....

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but to talk as though metaphorical wars ("war on drugs," "war on crime") are the same issue as actual war is an equivocation. At best, you'll just confuse people. (Me, for example). I'm not dismissing the other issues you raised, just pointing out that they are different things, and usually the result of different causes.

Our boys (and girls) are "over there" in an attempt to protect your liberties, even though not everyone agrees with using that method. Whereas the metaphorical wars are generally wars waged on your liberties -- a very different matter.

[Mr. Flibble]

Like most things in science which follow a pattern, a thought becomes an idea; an idea becomes an hypothesis; an hypothesis becomes a theory ~ and a theory becomes a law. The latter I find a little unrealistic, the concept betrays the word, somewhat. But this has been the way of things since God was a Catholic, for instance the flat Earth ~ a proven fact ~ until someone proved otherwise (and no it was not Chris Columbus). However, I thought that Einstein's Unified Field Theory was still pretty much accepted by the science community. Earlier you mentioned Newtonian Mechanics ~ you know that that theory is limited to physical world we walk around in and some aspects of astronomy but doesn't work at the atomic level, eh?

Yes, however, for most practical purposes Newtonian Mechanics suffices. Exceptions occur when dealing with technology such as GPS (Relativity) and Quantum Electro Dynamics (Semiconductor Design).
As it stands, the hypothesis put forward by Einstein referred to as ”Unified Field Theory” was a flop. Einstein was unable to reconcile Relativity with Electrodynamics, and for this reason QED took precedence as still does today. (See “Q.E.D. – Quantum Electro Dynamics” by Richard P Feynman and “The Problem With Physics” by Lee Smolin)

I am such a fan of Physics that I actually wear a “Beta Light” which is a Tritium gas pendant (a beta emitter) that is inside a borosilicate glass tube. This tube is lined with phosphorus and encased in a small glass crystal. It will continue to glow at this amount for 12.5 years, which is the half life of Tritium. (I have also been to Trinity Nuclear Test Site Ground Zero in New Mexico, Los Alamos, The Nuclear History Museum in Vegas (1 block from me at the moment!) and the last remaining Minuteman Missile Silo south of Tuscon Az) 

These words, ironically, have been reiterated a number of times by American officials. Can't tell you the name but I saw it one time on television. I was stunned.

I digress. This phenomenon is still real, as with the "The 100th Monkey". Even if you don't subscribe to Einstein's theories ~ many people still do and you find yourself paddling upstream. This is what the 2012 issue is about, a collective conciousness.

I of course subscribe to Einstein’s theories as I am very engaged in physics and the sciences. However, his theories are not related to 2012 in any way shape or form.

The reason Men have nipples is because the embryo form defaults to a female form, that, and as you might guess we share a good deal of parts otherwise with women. It is simply the way natural selection works on the genes.

Yes, a template. Are you suggesting that this complex systematic division is by fluke?

Fluke? No, I make no such suggestion. This pattern is determined by Evolution. As the original pattern designed through natural selection is of a more Female nature men have nipples. It is similar to the recurrent laryngeal nerve. (See, “Your Inner Fish” by Neil Shubin and “The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution” by Richard Dawkins)

Santa Claus.... Coca Cola did well with that one. The origins of Father Christmas, mind, there is truth in that. Similar to the story of Robin Hood, there was more than one, the idea being the giving spirit of Father Christmas based on a guy in northern Europe whom during the Halcyon Days would ride around in a sleigh, distributing treats to the children in the villages. Again, the stories of 2012 reflecting collective conciousness of what is real ~ for that reason I am really glad that the religious majority are not fundamental Christians.

Yes, Santa Claus had a more contemporary origin, but to believe that he is actually flying about on a reindeer powered flying sleigh that can exceed the speed of light by a few factors is absurd. The idea of a “Collective Consciousness” applying to 2012 is nothing more than a pipe dream in the same vein as the flying Santa Claus. There simply is no proof to support the conclusions surrounding the 2012 collective consciousness. The entire idea and concept violates the “Burden of Proof argument”. (See “The Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark” – Carl Sagan, Chapter on “Baloney Detection”)

Wikipedia, again: Maya Calendar
There is also the National Geographic Magazine, however they also claim that the Mayans have disappeared, but both your friend and myself have seen them since so not sure about the NGM's credibility on that count.

Is that why October is now the tenth month and September is the ninth? A little stitch here, a little stitch there... Insert a month or two for the fair haired emperors? Apart from the arrogant Romans you also have had the Church screwing with it in order to establish their power and much of that brings us back to Santa Claus.

That is the Maya Calendar indeed, but it makes no mention of it being more accurate than our refined calendar.
Ironically, the very link you provide contains the following text:
“Misinterpretation of the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar is the basis for a New Age belief that a cataclysm will take place on December 21, 2012. December 21, 2012 is simply the first day of the 14th b'ak'tun.”

The average world life expectancy today is 67 years, which is an all time high, at least in numbers. But what about the quality of life?

You say we are less violent: Perhaps we don't scream as much when going into a charge and we are not hacking as much with axes and swords but have you seen what a 50 calibre machine gun can do to the human body? There are not only more wars today than at any other time in history but there are more kinds of wars. Take psychological warfare, used to be wear a big hat, a big cod piece and scream really loud. Now it is to a whole new level of manipulation.

The simple fact of the matter is that there are fewer deaths by murder and disease in modern society. Yes, we have machines of greater killing power, but to argue that we are dying more is simply false and unfounded. In earlier days you had 1 in 6 odds of being murdered by a fellow citizen. And, when compared to modern weapons, the Gladius, which is simply a knife writ large has killed more people than any other weapon. While we have the capacity to kill more, the good news is that we are doing it less and fewer are dying. Also, standard measures of quality of life have shown it to be on the increase across the world.

Fewer diseases? Please...... Are you serious? We are all seriously diseased. Apart from the plague, leprosy, &c. ~ which are still around by the way ~ we have all manner of new diseases. And the germs are clever little buggers, they keep changing. Some of those wonder drugs aren't working as well these days. City folk get sicker and sicker because they are so obsessed with antibacterial soap. Just like a good hockey player ~ a strong immune system needs practice. George Carlin is not the only person to say that. Not all diseases are to do with germs, consider television ~ the new opium of the masses, or the internet ~ truly a heroine for the masses (sic). Our food is toxic. The water is poisoned.

Yes, my assertion stands. Fewer diseases. Yes, diseases evolve according to Natural Selection and are able to “dodge” modern antibiotics, but these are not new diseases, but old ones. Furthermore, there are far, far more treatments for these diseases now than in the past. In terms of medical science and diseases there has never been a better time to be alive, and it is only improving.

Your assertion that “our food is toxic, our water is poisoned,” is only based on hearsay. Are there instances of bad water? Yes. Are there instances of poisoned food? Yes. However, when taken as a whole, compared even to only the last 50 years the quality of available drinking water for the world and quality of food has increased, not decreased. Technology such as the Haber Process has been able to feed a whopping 40% of the planet. To argue that things are getting worse in the world and not better is to ignore the current facts as they stand.

I think a better phrase would be "Censured from the Bible". It was something like 56 books removed from the Bible? Which I think is also why over the four synoptic gospels Christ is crucified in three different places and why his marriage in Cana is only mentioned in one (St. John). The Romans kept exemplary records, I believe the ballot for the divinity of Jesus was 218 to two, in favour. Prior to the First Counsel Of Nicaea he was just your regular everyday messiah.

One source would be: http://www.gnosis.org/library.html
This is by far the best source I have come across. It has been available on the World Wide Web since 1994.

I suppose you could look at it as censured, in either case, you are correct. Before the council of Nicea there was not an official bible apart from the Old Testament. The current Bible did exist prior to the council, but the council created the Orthodox bible, and from there on the New Testament had a fixed amount of gospels and epistles. (The Catholics still have the Apocrypha)

[Firesong]

Weird question but who has experience with snow shoes?
I have some of the military ones but want to figure out
something new with bindings.
A while back someone was telling me they made some
great ones with bicycle tire tubes. Can't remember
how though.

Any suggestions, or such on what you have used and worked
well?

Firesong

[solanoid]

Time to end the silence,

I know that there are those of you that have had their interest peaked in one way or another regarding last months subjects, so I wanted to include a site that contains an extensive list of videos that makes for excelent reference material, there is 101 topics sure to get you thinking.

conspiracyrealitytv.com- go to "list all videos"

But be warned, once you get into it, its addictive, I recomend topics including the "black monarchy" as well as the "patriot act"
Check it out, tell me your favorites!

Your friend and collegue,
Solanoid

[glenn]

My problem with conspiracy theories is that when they are not outlandish, they imply that we are powerless - and more disturbing they often absolve us, as individuals, of any responsibility. With all due respect, the whole phenomenon of conspiracy theories is the product of an idol and indulgent population who see the world through a very privileged context.

Here is my favourite website for alternative views on current events
http://www.good.is/

what I like best about good is that it not only satisfies this desire for uncovering conspiracies - it is also very rational and upbeat about how we can all be "good" I find this website inspiring. Check out some of the infographics - talk about connecting the dots.


. . . . perhaps I am a bit of zealot