Suddenly won't start

[naossoan]

Hi all,

I've been using my Pajero all Winter in Manitoba without issue. I've hardly had to plug it in. It has been running GREAT.

I recent'y had the fuel injection pump seal replaced as I was having stalling issues mostly while the engine was still cold and it cleared those right up.

Like I said, it has been running great. It has been starting up INSTANTLY all Winter, a lot of the time without even being plugged in.

We had a bit of a snow storm the other day and now, all of a sudden out of no where it just won't start. I literally used it on Saturday post-storm and it worked completely fine. Started up right away and ran fine. Then yesterday I went to go to a going away party and it just absolutely would not start.

When I turn the key I wait for the glow plug click then turn the ignition. The engine turns over but it seems to just do that endlessly. smoke/exhaust gases seems to be coming out the exhaust in small amounts. I thought maybe the battery was a bit dead or something so I hooked up a trickle charger to it last night just to make sure it was charged up. I had the truck plugged in all night, for over 12 hours for the block heater and tried again this morning - NO GO. I also tried jumping it yesterday with a friend's vehicle and it was a no go. I tried using my jumper/booster pack this morning (650 starting amps I think) and it made no difference.

I'll be posting a video in a bit here it just has to finish uploading.

Any ideas guys? I'm super, super frustrated as I am trying to move. I was supposed to be leaving tomorrow but now I'm having last-minute vehicle issues and a new tenant is moving into the house in 2 weeks!!!!! I'll post a link to the video when it's done.

Oh forgot to mention.
I have a 1996 SWB Pajero, 4M40 engine.
The glow plugs are I believe MKT? I got them this past Summer. As mentioned it's been starting flawlessly all Winter.

EDIT: I got an email not sure where the message is as it's not here and it's not a PM saying to check the Glow Plugs and the Relay. How do I test these? Thanks.

EDIT: Here's video www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNo7QDXMQmc

[naossoan]

So I read a bit on how to test and grabbed my multimeter. One thing said to test the voltage with the positive on the battery and the negative/ground on the top of the glow plug. I did this for each glow plug and got a ~12.something volt (I have an analog multi meter) reading for each glow plug.

Then I saw another one which said to test with Ohms. Negative/ground touching ground and Positive to the top of each glow plug. If there was no reading then the plug is defective. I got a reading for each one that all appeared the same.

This was with the ignition turned off obviously.

So does this mean that there shouldn't be any dead glow plugs? How do I test the glow plug relay?

Thanks

[naossoan]

So I read some more and found how to test the relay box.

I put my Ground of the multimeter on my battery and touched the black cable of the glow plug relay with the Positive (which is going to the battery) and it shows the 12V with ignition OFF. I touched the Positive to the other bolt which has a cable going down to the glow plug buzz bar. It does not show any voltage, with ignition OFF.

I HAVE EDITED THIS POST

Initially when I was testing the relay the lead heading down to the buzz bar on the glow plug relay was NOT showing 12V after turning the ignition to ON but as it turns out I had just gotten to it too late. I got to it after the second "click" from the relay. This time I got to it fast enough to test the second terminal heading down to the buzz bar and it does in fact read 12V when testing with the miltimeter when ignition is turned to ON. Then the voltage dies after the second click (which is how it should be to my understanding). So I guess it's not the relay.

I guess I will take off my Intercooler to get access to the glow plugs and actually take them out and take a look at them and test the resistance on them. I don't understand how they could ALL OF A SUDDEN die though like 1 day working, the next day not working. Doesn't make any damn sense to me.

[Torqueluvr]

I'm no expert on the issue, but in my experience any sudden change in starting performance is usually an electrical bug. Maybe a connector got bumped loose somehow? I would double check all connections, and maybe remove and clean the bus bar (flexible piece of metal connecting all glow plugs). Take some sand paper to it and clean it up, sometimes they get so old and dirty that one day they decide to suck up all the current and your plugs don't get any juice, then cannot warm up, thus causing problems for your starting. Give that a shot, I wish I could be of more help. I live in Edmonton and I know how frustrating the winter can be on vehicles. Good luck.

[Torqueluvr]

Also, check your fuses. All of them. If you can hear the clicking sound of the glowplug relay thats good, hopefully it is still in good shape. Check all other fuses as they may be inhibiting current to the rest of the vehicle.

[naossoan]

Could it be anything with the fuel system? Fuel pump? Where is the fuel pump located? I find it unlikely that all of a sudden all of my glow plugs could stop working at the same time.

The other thing is that I don't think my block heater is working. Usually when it's plugged in I can hear a bit of a sizzling type of sound as it's a frost plug type block heater. I'm not hearing any sound though. It's -20C right now, cold as ^&%$#@. So I'm not sure if maybe that's just why it's not starting at all.

I checked power right down to the busbar with my voltmeter. There isn't 12V while touching right on the busbar but there's around 11 or so.

Since it's so cold I can really only work on it for like 5 minutes at a time because I don't have any gloves on (can't really work on stuff with big winter gloves on) so I have to keep running inside.

I managed to get all of the glow plugs out and from what I read online for how to test them, you set the multimeter to Ohms, and if they read higher than 5ohms then they're bad. 2 out of 4 seem to give me bad readings.

This is when I touch the ground/negative to the threaded outside of the plug, and the positive/red one to the threated top portion of the plug with the nut on it that holds the busbar in place. Is this the correct way to test them?

[Big-Bird]

In addition to the resistance check you can do a function test with each plug removed.

Connect your glow plug directly to your battery with a couple of testwires. Do not hold them with your hand as a good glow plug will experience heat even at the positive end. Use pliers and hold the ground wire to the body of the glow plug.

A good plug will glow red hot in about 10 seconds which is the relay cycle time on a Mitsu diesel.

A poor plug may get hot but it takes far longer and may not glow red at all. REPLACE!

I will PM a link to you where you can buy glow plugs from in the UK. About 50.00cdn including shipping. Takes about 10days to get from England to Canada.

[naossoan]

Thanks.

Yeah I hooked up a 10A charger to the glow plugs. The 2 that gave me good Ohm readings started glowing red hot almost right away.

The other 2 did not glow AT ALL. So I've only got 2 out of 4 plugs working. With -20 temperatures and the possibility of my block heater not actually working, this is probably why my truck isn't starting!!!!!!

Time to get new plugs. These are 11V HKT glow plugs. I've been told by a garage that I should ONLY get the 11V NGK plugs. That they're the only reliable plugs they've ever had success with. But they're $50 a piece!!!!

[Pajero]

With a diesel when its cold or if the glow plugs are weak it can still start but I have found the best thing to do is to crank it over for a while as the clylinders will warm up and it will fire up. I had bad glow plugs and it would take a 30sec-1min of solid cranking and it would fire up. wont solve the problem and is hard on the starter but will get it going.


Joe

[Artie Fufkin]

I've had the same symptoms you describe after vehicle has sat for a long time. It was 100% air getting into the fuel system.

If starter is working fine, glow plugs working fine, batteries are strong, engine just keeps turning over but not firing its always been fuel not getting to injectors.

AF

[bionic]

In addition to the resistance check you can do a function test with each plug removed.

Connect your glow plug directly to your battery with a couple of testwires. Do not hold them with your hand as a good glow plug will experience heat even at the positive end. Use pliers and hold the ground wire to the body of the glow plug.

A good plug will glow red hot in about 10 seconds which is the relay cycle time on a Mitsu diesel.

A poor plug may get hot but it takes far longer and may not glow red at all. REPLACE!

I will PM a link to you where you can buy glow plugs from in the UK. About 50.00cdn including shipping. Takes about 10days to get from England to Canada.

I really hope you are joking with this advice. A good glow plug should be red in under 5 seconds(with 12v test)...10 is way too long, and will likely overheat a plug. If the relays/plugs/ECM check out good, then its advisable that one of the inner IP seals/fuel lines is allowing air, which will result in no fuel/inconsistent fuel at start up.(especially after sitting) ie: nothing, or sputter, sputter etc,..

[Big-Bird]

No I am not joking. Even after talking to several diesel techs who have worked on the Cat equipped 4M40 stated the average time for a glow plug to get up to peak temp is about 10 seconds. Some models of plugs may get hotter faster but that has to do with the heating element inside the tip and its makeup.

Take a look at this video and you will see peak temp envelop the element of a glowplug in around the 10 second mark....not just the point of the tip but complete heat saturation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR8qyQ6bmVc

So yes, I stand by what I said.

[bionic]

No I am not joking. Even after talking to several diesel techs who have worked on the Cat equipped 4M40 stated the average time for a glow plug to get up to peak temp is about 10 seconds. Some models of plugs may get hotter faster but that has to do with the heating element inside the tip and its makeup.

Take a look at this video and you will see peak temp envelop the element of a glowplug in around the 10 second mark....not just the point of the tip but complete heat saturation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR8qyQ6bmVc

So yes, I stand by what I said.

I need no explanation on glow plug engineering, as we do this at my work. I believe you know what you've heard 3rd hand from the Internet. My point was the plug (tip) will glow red for ngk/ bosch 6.2/11v systems in Max 5-7 seconds. (12-14v full load) The plugs will/ should never run longer than that to avoid premature resistor failure. This is why your controller only cycles for 5/7 seconds.
My point was fuel supply is equally a likely culprit given the symptoms of this problem. I would do a fuel pressure test once the initial plug/ relay/ ECM electronics have been tested.
I will bow out at this point as it serves little benefit. Best of luck to both;)

[psilosin]

On the L400 the plugs run for an additional 2 minutes at after a cold start...so 5 seconds vs 10 seconds isn't a big deal imo.

[bionic]

On the L400 the plugs run for an additional 2 minutes at after a cold start...so 5 seconds vs 10 seconds isn't a big deal imo.

We are referring to cycle time, not total time. The glow plugs cycle on and off, and will do so for several minutes depending on engine temperature.