Brake job

[stever1000]

My L400's brakes vibrate when braking on the highway/above 70kms and braking down hill, and recently at CVI Butch said my pads were getting low. So i think it's time for rotors and pads.

My question is: how do I know if I need to change my calipers? Pads are obvious because of wear, and rotors because of the vibration during braking. Stumped on how I know if my calipers need to be replaced.

I will probably replace everything, but if I can save money that would be nice.

Second question: is it possible to bleed only the front / only the rear brakes? Or do I have to do all 4 at once? I've always done all 4, but I thought it may be easier to split the job into two nights

Thanks in advance!

[macro]

My L400's brakes vibrate when braking on the highway/above 70kms and braking down hill, and recently at CVI Butch said my pads were getting low. So i think it's time for rotors and pads.

My question is: how do I know if I need to change my calipers? Pads are obvious because of wear, and rotors because of the vibration during braking. Stumped on how I know if my calipers need to be replaced.

I will probably replace everything, but if I can save money that would be nice.

Second question: is it possible to bleed only the front / only the rear brakes? Or do I have to do all 4 at once? I've always done all 4, but I thought it may be easier to split the job into two nights

Thanks in advance!

The most important part of the callipers is the slider pins. Make sure you grease those up on a regular basis and put them back in the proper spots (top and bottom bolts are different, causes issues if they're flipped, learned the hard way).
When you pull the callipers out, have a look at the cylinders and rubber boots, if they look good then they should be fine. They only need to be changed if they're dragging. If one set of pads is worn more than the other, probable cause is callipers.

As for bleeding the brakes, that's the bane of my existence and I can never seem to do it properly. I do all the work, bleed what I can, then take it my mechanic to bleed it properly!

[Feds]

A couple of inspection tips for calipers:

Look at your pads. They should be about the same thickness. If one side is much thinner than the other, you've got a bad caliper.

Look at all the rubber seals/bellows. If they are in good shape, you're fine. If they are torn/broken/split, you're on the road toward a caliper replacement/rebuild.

Last check is when you re-set the piston to fit the new pads. If the piston slides back with a reasonable amount of force (with the bleed screw open), you're fine. If it is difficult to move, it's probably siezed, and you need a new caliper.

As for bleeding the brakes, here's the best way I've come up with to do it:

Get 6 to 8' of clear tubing that fits snugly over the bleed screw. Put one end on the screw, and the other end up high (tied to a step ladder, hanging from the top of your garage, whatever, be creative). Smear grease around the base of the bleed screw, then crack it open. Slowly press the pedal, not all the way down. Hold for 5 seconds, then slowly release. Repeat until the tube is full. Dump most (but not all) of the bled fluid into your catch can. Repeat until no more bubbles come out, and the fluid is clear.

As for not bleeding all the brakes, you can get away with it, if you're careful while changing calipers and don't let all the fluid drain out of the resevoir. You'll know when your brakes are working, so button it all up at 10pm, do a slow test drive, and re-bleed if you need to.Be in bed by 11.

[stever1000]

Feds:
1. What's the difference between having a long tube and hanging it up high like you mention, instead of 2-3' of hose going down directly into a bottle and watching until there are no bubbles in the hose? Can you recall the I.D. of the hose? I will have to buy some

2. Since my rotor is vibrating I feel like the pads may also be worn unevenly?

3. Since I have to pay a core charge to buy a new caliper, would it be better to buy the new one and pay the core charge, and also buy a rebuild kit for the old caliper. That way I can install the new calipers that day, but save money down the road by having a rebuilt (by me) caliper ready as well? I would imagine the core charge + rebuilt kit is cheaper than the new caliper

Many thanks!

[stever1000]

My L400's brakes vibrate when braking on the highway/above 70kms and braking down hill, and recently at CVI Butch said my pads were getting low. So i think it's time for rotors and pads.

My question is: how do I know if I need to change my calipers? Pads are obvious because of wear, and rotors because of the vibration during braking. Stumped on how I know if my calipers need to be replaced.

I will probably replace everything, but if I can save money that would be nice.

Second question: is it possible to bleed only the front / only the rear brakes? Or do I have to do all 4 at once? I've always done all 4, but I thought it may be easier to split the job into two nights

Thanks in advance!

The most important part of the callipers is the slider pins. Make sure you grease those up on a regular basis and put them back in the proper spots (top and bottom bolts are different, causes issues if they're flipped, learned the hard way).
When you pull the callipers out, have a look at the cylinders and rubber boots, if they look good then they should be fine. They only need to be changed if they're dragging. If one set of pads is worn more than the other, probable cause is callipers.

As for bleeding the brakes, that's the bane of my existence and I can never seem to do it properly. I do all the work, bleed what I can, then take it my mechanic to bleed it properly!

I've read about the problems with the caliper slider pins and I will lube those best I can. Thanks!

[thelazygreenfox]

S1
I know they meant well but you're getting some scary advice. Be careful, brakes aren't to be taken lightly.

Even the newer (15 yr old) 4 wheel Delica discs if not maintained with eventually seize.

Caliper piston rebuild kits are hard to find. In most cases you only need change the caliper piston seals. The piston boots are the most expensive parts and often don't need changed. Rebuilt calipers often have no new piston seals. They fail inside a year, ask me...

Front caliper/rotor problems can be caused by ineffective/seized rear brakes. ABS brakes compound the problem more. Sliders are a problem and need be lubed with silicone grease.

Bleed the old fluid out of all 4 wheels. Never do just 2 wheels at a time......

Buy a brake bleed kit from eg. Princess Auto or(?). It has a one way flow valve built in. Ensure it fits tight over the bleeds. Mount it justabove the bleed, air flows up!

Buy fresh new brake fluid. Use clean containers and have lots of rags handy to clean up the spills.

Jack up the van, use 4 stands and remove the wheels. Use a good work light to see your work and later the bleed bubbles.

Complete your brake work.

Close all bleeds and fill the brake master cyl w fluid. Start the engine, bleed LR, RFront, Rt R, and L Front only in that order!

This is only a guide line. Most of this is straight out of our DC site or brake books plus my garage.

Good Luck, this is my 3rd Delica and not much has changed.
TLWF

[stever1000]

S1
I know they meant well but you're getting some scary advice. Be careful, brakes aren't to be taken lightly.

Even the newer (15 yr old) 4 wheel Delica discs if not maintained with eventually seize.

Caliper piston rebuild kits are hard to find. In most cases you only need change the caliper piston seals. The piston boots are the most expensive parts and often don't need changed. Rebuilt calipers often have no new piston seals. They fail inside a year, ask me...

Front caliper/rotor problems can be caused by ineffective/seized rear brakes. ABS brakes compound the problem more. Sliders are a problem and need be lubed with silicone grease.

Bleed the old fluid out of all 4 wheels. Never do just 2 wheels at a time......

Buy a brake bleed kit from eg. Princess Auto or(?). It has a one way flow valve built in. Ensure it fits tight over the bleeds. Mount it justabove the bleed, air flows up!

Buy fresh new brake fluid. Use clean containers and have lots of rags handy to clean up the spills.

Jack up the van, use 4 stands and remove the wheels. Use a good work light to see your work and later the bleed bubbles.

Complete your brake work. Ps You'll need large metric allen keys for the rotor removal.

Close all bleeds and fill the brake master cyl w fluid. Start the engine, bleed LR, RFront, Rt R, and L Front only in that order!

This is only a guide line. Most of this is straight out of our DC site or brake books plus my garage.

Good Luck, this is my 3rd Delica and not much has changed.
TLWF

Thanks for the information. Now for some questions:

0. What do you suggest is the best option for calipers? If new/rebuilt calipers still seize up, what is my best option?
1. Why do you suggest a brake bleed kit instead of bleeding with two people? I have no experience with the kit, so any info. is appreciated.
2. Why should the engine be on when bleeding? Does this work better for our machines? I've read both ways several times
3. I have several allen keys, do you by chance know the exact size so I can double check before starting?

Many thanks :)

[thelazygreenfox]

Thanks for the information. Now for some questions:

0. What do you suggest is the best option for calipers? If new/rebuilt calipers still seize up, what is my best option?
1. Why do you suggest a brake bleed kit instead of bleeding with two people? I have no experience with the kit, so any info. is appreciated.
2. Why should the engine be on when bleeding? Does this work better for our machines? I've read both ways several times
3. I have several allen keys, do you by chance know the exact size so I can double check before starting?

S1

0- In an ideal world-rebuild the calipers yourself. I'm still searching for a local brake shop supplier that has the right sized parts. Most new delica parts are scary expensive so i haven't checked. Check with Amayama trading online.

It's not difficult to remove pistons with a compressor , air gun and a piece of 2x4. You see very easy which of the calipers piston were tight, possibly not even seized.

1-"two people" is great as long as you don't have to wait till your buddy gets off work, back from his sons ball game or??? Ask your wife to help.
2-It's a delica recomendation. Once you've bled with the engine on you see why. Do a search, it's there somewhere.
3-Me bad, the bolts are metric not allen type

TLWF

[Big-Bird]

About running the engine while bleeding the brake system.

Having the engine running provides a bit more pressure when the pedal is applied. Its not actuall necessary but it does make the process easier for the person pushing the brake pedal.

as for a rebuild kit for calipers these are all avilable in the EBAY.UK.CO website or you can contact one of the JDM importers/suppliers located all around Vancouver and Vancouver Island.

If you live further east (past Sask) then Right Drive Parts in Toronto usually has stock on lots of bits like filters, brake pads, seals, gaskets, even CV boots for lots of JDM's.

Rebuilding a caliper on a Delica is exactly like any other japansese car like a honda, toyota. The parts are bigger is all. If your caliper pistons are ruined then there is a possibility of getting cups made out of stainless and at least one Delica.ca member offered to do this.

Search the forum.....

[FalcoColumbarius]

I've moved this topic from General to L400 Technical. You can save me this expense by posting it in the correct topic forum to start with.
Cheers.

Falco.

[Feds]

Feds:
1. What's the difference between having a long tube and hanging it up high like you mention, instead of 2-3' of hose going down directly into a bottle and watching until there are no bubbles in the hose? Can you recall the I.D. of the hose? I will have to buy some

2. Since my rotor is vibrating I feel like the pads may also be worn unevenly?

3. Since I have to pay a core charge to buy a new caliper, would it be better to buy the new one and pay the core charge, and also buy a rebuild kit for the old caliper. That way I can install the new calipers that day, but save money down the road by having a rebuilt (by me) caliper ready as well? I would imagine the core charge + rebuilt kit is cheaper than the new caliper

Many thanks!

1. Because the hose/bottle tends to be a pain to position properly, occasionally spills, and in my experience, makes the job much harder. The vertical hose has just worked better for me. You can also position your mirrors or head to look at the hose, whereas the bottle is invisible once you're in the car.

2. Maybe, maybe not. Your rotor could be warped from heat, or just age.

3. You can check on the cost of the core charge, and add your time into the equation.

My comment about only bleeding 2 wheels seems to need qualification: You can tell in 10' of driving whether your brakes are adequately bled. If there is air in the system, your brakes won't work well (or at all), and you will go back and bleed the rest of the system. If you replace 1 or 2 calipers and your brakes work exactly like they did before you started the job, you'll be fine until the next night. Trapped air doesn't work like that. Either your brakes work or they don't, you won't get a surprise failure halfway through the day.

[stever1000]

About running the engine while bleeding the brake system.

Having the engine running provides a bit more pressure when the pedal is applied. Its not actuall necessary but it does make the process easier for the person pushing the brake pedal.

as for a rebuild kit for calipers these are all avilable in the EBAY.UK.CO website or you can contact one of the JDM importers/suppliers located all around Vancouver and Vancouver Island.

If you live further east (past Sask) then Right Drive Parts in Toronto usually has stock on lots of bits like filters, brake pads, seals, gaskets, even CV boots for lots of JDM's.

Rebuilding a caliper on a Delica is exactly like any other japansese car like a honda, toyota. The parts are bigger is all. If your caliper pistons are ruined then there is a possibility of getting cups made out of stainless and at least one Delica.ca member offered to do this.

Search the forum.....

Thanks for the info. I searched and didn't find much on rebuilding the calipers - are any special tools needed? I live in an apartment and have limited tools, not sure what I will decide.

EDIT:
found this on another forum (I always forget to search other forums)
http://www.delicaclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=24734




Feds:

1. Because the hose/bottle tends to be a pain to position properly, occasionally spills, and in my experience, makes the job much harder. The vertical hose has just worked better for me. You can also position your mirrors or head to look at the hose, whereas the bottle is invisible once you're in the car.

2. Maybe, maybe not. Your rotor could be warped from heat, or just age.

3. You can check on the cost of the core charge, and add your time into the equation.

My comment about only bleeding 2 wheels seems to need qualification: You can tell in 10' of driving whether your brakes are adequately bled. If there is air in the system, your brakes won't work well (or at all), and you will go back and bleed the rest of the system. If you replace 1 or 2 calipers and your brakes work exactly like they did before you started the job, you'll be fine until the next night. Trapped air doesn't work like that. Either your brakes work or they don't, you won't get a surprise failure halfway through the day.

Excellent, I see what you mean with using only the hose now. I have spilled fluid before because the hose/bottle got knocked over.

Get 6 to 8' of clear tubing that fits snugly over the bleed screw. Put one end on the screw, and the other end up high (tied to a step ladder, hanging from the top of your garage, whatever, be creative). Smear grease around the base of the bleed screw, then crack it open. Slowly press the pedal, not all the way down. Hold for 5 seconds, then slowly release. Repeat until the tube is full. Dump most (but not all) of the bled fluid into your catch can. Repeat until no more bubbles come out, and the fluid is clear.

One more clarification... With your method, are you doing it by yourself and running back and forth, or is the length of tube long enough to prevent air being sucked back into the caliper?

Do you use something like this: http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/o ... -p2990048e
Or is that the equivalent?

EDIT: I read more up on "one person bleeding" and the idea makes sense now.
Thanks!

[almac]

the braking vibration is caused by improperly worn disks. they can be machined in a shop; they don't always have to be replaced, depending on how thick they are(there are minimal tolerances for safety).

the only time I replace my calipers is if they are leaking or corroded.
if properly taken care of, calipers will last a long time.

[stever1000]

the braking vibration is caused by improperly worn disks. they can be machined in a shop; they don't always have to be replaced, depending on how thick they are(there are minimal tolerances for safety).

the only time I replace my calipers is if they are leaking or corroded.
if properly taken care of, calipers will last a long time.

I only have one vehicle, so once this thing is on jackstands, I can't get go to a shop to have them machined. My plan was to install new rotors and keep the old ones and get them machined in the future as spares

[Growlerbearnz]

Amayama.com lists a genuine Mitsubishi seal kit (MB857840) for $17 a side, Pistons (MB857837) are $37 each, Top pins (MB618227) are $9 each, lower pins (MB618228) are $8.50 each. So $220ish + shipping to rebuild both calipers.

This assumes you know what you're doing- while brake calipers are easy to rebuild (strip, clean, reassemble with new parts) the consequences of doing it wrong are quite high. Luckily I learned to rebuild brake components while I was younger and invulnerable.

Complete calipers (MB858404 and MB858405) are $350 each.