troubleshooting a 1990 L300 5-speed overheating (surprise!)

[lookoutworld]

Hello fellow Delica enthusiasts! This is my first post so please bear with me.

Background (Skip to below for troubles): 8 months ago I found my dream van on craigslist in Vancouver, BC. I live in Portland, Oregon. I brought the van down into the states with minimal trouble. It was leaking diesel and oil at the time. The diesel leak was fixed by tightening one of the injectors down and the mystery oil leak magically cured itself (??? yes I still have oil). The van was owned by Butch at CVI for a while. One other gentleman owned it between Butch and I... I was unable to get service records from him (grrrrr). The cooling system was apparently re-done recently (relatively). Timing belt was just done. It apparently has a new clutch as well. I haven't driven it a ton since I got it... mostly I'm just becoming comfortable with its mechanical condition before a trip. New ball joints, a new U-joint, a new wheel cylinder, two tranny flushes, and an oil/fuel filter change later... and I'm finally driving it as my daily driver. I love it.

Now my troubles/questions. It seems to be getting hot (typical delica). This happens when I go up a long hill slowly (typical)... or up a very gradual hill at speed (80-90 km/hour). ***I never go faster than 100 km/hour***. Remember, I have a manual transmission. I have a TM2 on the M8 head bold right next to the Mitsubishi temp sensor. It has gone up to 208 degrees F once. About that time my factory temp gauge goes up to 2/3 or 3/5 of its travel. I also have an EGT guage on there... but I'm lazy and haven't hooked up the electricals yet. I've read many, many posts on here.. but often get conflicting info (classic forum theory). I am concerned with the rise in temps.

Questions:
1) how fast do you guys drive your manual L300's?
2) what is the max RPM's I should use consistently?
3) does your factory temp gauge rest at 1/3 during non-aggressive driving?
4) how much fluctuation do you typically see with your gauge?
5) My gut says this overheating is an issue. Is it an issue to you gurus?
6) what should I begin with to diagnose this temp increase? (head gasket? surrrrprise)

***Thank you all so much.***
-Scott

some pictures:

Van:


typical in-town or downhill operating temp (TM2 reads about 185-190F during this):


getting a little hotter (TM2 read 204F at the time):


TM2 Location:

[Growlerbearnz]

Edit: Now with more comprehensive answer. Many words. Much detail. Wow.

1) Automatic L300 here, but I cruise at about 100kph, sometimes creeping to 105.

2) Manual L300s are lower geared than automatics and do about 2800rpm at 100kph. 4D56s are tough engines fitted to trucks that operate in countries with much higher speed limits- you should be able to run all day at anything below 3500rpm without issues.

3) While every temperature gauge is slightly different, they mostly tend to sit at about 1/4 around town, up to about 1/3 at 100kph. You saw this post? http://www.delica.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=17645 There's a couple of photos of temperature gauges in there.

4) Your photos look about the same as what I'm used to. The high temperature one would take me about 10 minutes of driving hard up a steep hill, though if I'm towing the caravan it'll get a bit higher than that, and much quicker...

5) It depends how quickly it changes, and that comes down to how much experience you have with your van. Check your coolant levels frequently and look for leaks. Is the coolant clean? Coolant that gets dirty quickly can indicate a sludged-up radiator or engine block.

6) If you think the temperature changes too easily, the first thing I'd check would be the cooling fans- the electric one in front of the radiator is run by the aircon system, but also switches on if the coolant gets too hot. The fuse can blow- it's behind the glove box (remove the glove box- 5 screws-, the fuses are in white plastic inline holders behind). The main fan clutch can fail, leaving your fan to just freewheel. Have a look at YouTube for videos showing how to test the fan clutch. Ignore the ones where they stick their hands into the blades, which is fine if the clutch is broken, but painful if the clutch turns out to be working properly.

[lookoutworld]

Hello Growlerbearnz,

No need to apologize! Thank you!!

These are two things I'll be checking thanks to you. Along with visual for milky oil. I've got an appointment with a shop on Monday. Good things to check before then.

Coolant levels seems to be fine as far as I can tell. No white out the exhaust.

Thanks again.

[lookoutworld]

1) roger that

2) I love the stick... but not so much my top speed. I don't mind going slow.. but everyone else does. heh. Good to know on the 3500! I cant imagine running my gas subaru at 4600rpms (% equivelent) all day... but I am new to diesels.

3) I'm glad to hear that fluctuations like this are semi-"normal"... again, my other cars just hang out at the half way point... always.

4) roger that

5) coolant seems nice, green, and clean. Always full.

6) I believe my aircon system is non existant... no belts for it! I hope the temp thing triggers it then. This is good. I'll check these. Thank you.

-Scott

[lookoutworld]

And thank you for that link! I feel like I had discounted it in the past.. but now find it very interesting.

[Growlerbearnz]

Regarding 3) Some people have vans with a very stable temperature gauge which stays low most of the time, only ever rising to about halfway. They'll say that the temperature fluctuations you're seeing are abnormal.

Mine used to stay low all the time until I renewed the radiator, thermostat, water pump, and temperature sender. Now it moves about like yours does (and like many others do). I suspect the temperature sender gets lazy as it ages- there's no way my brand new radiator performs worse than my old, clogged one.

Oh, and head gasket failures on a 4D56 don't always allow oil and water to mix, sometimes you'll get combustion gas in the water but the oil will remain clean. Check both your oil and water level and cleanliness regularly, until you get used to your particular van's quirks.

[lookoutworld]

Thanks again growlerbearnz. I'll have a few minutes tomorrow morning to get out and lift the seat up. Will report back.

I've read a few conflicting things when it comes to fans not working and driving at speed. Some say the fan working wont even do anything at speed.... because there is already lots of airflow. Other say it absolutely matters.. any input?

I've gone up one really gnarly hill at 20-30kph... about a 10-15 min drive up. That got me to 204F. But then on the way home from work I drive about 30 mins and hit a *very* slight hill at about 85-90kph... thats what really warms it up 208F. Fine until the slant... then hot.. then fine after.

Again... I'm not even sure if this is an issue.. but I have no other data points other than my roommate's auto deli... his seems to be just peachy and at about 2/5 all the time at 100kph on the same slant.

Best regards!

[ChuckBlack]

Last year on my trip down to Parksville from St Albert Ab. My temp gauge stayed steady just below the halfway mark... Climbing all the hill coming up to BC I had my EGT between 800F to 1000F and eng temp gauge was up to 3/4... I actually stopped on my way back worried that the engine was going to melt! After 20 min i drove again and all were good the rest of the trip. At that time I also had a bad fan clutch and a leaky radiator and my van was also loaded. I now have a brand smoking new rad (Thanks to Rising Sun Imports Call Steven for any inquiries) and did a back up flush, replaced my conventional 50/50 Green coolant for an extended Life Coolant (Pink) and the fan clutch which did improve my EGT down 150F at 100Klm/h. I'm heading to ParksVille again on Sunday for a two weeks holiday. Can't wait to see the improvements climbing up these hills!!!

Now, I've been told by a secure sources that when climbing these bloody long BC hill, especially the Coquihalla highway, Shift the tranny into that 2nd gear (auto) and give her! Which is right! Diesel engine relies on high RPM to have that water pump, pump as much coolant through the block! I remember last time my transmission was probably in 2nd or 3rd gear trying to maintain a 40 to 60Klm/h speed up the hills! Even the big rigs were passing me up hills... Which remind me the get a sticker made...(Yes It's Floored!!!!) on my bumper..

Keep ya'll updated!

[lookoutworld]

whoa... I could totally go for a "yes, its floored" sticker.

OK, so I went outside today!

I haven't tested the fan clutch yet... but it doesn't totally freewheel. So thats next...

BUT, I did poke around that electrical fan. I tried to spin it and it wouldn't budge! So i forced it a bit and it broke free. I fumbled around with the shroud and pulled a strange thing out. A plastic ninja star.... does anyone know where this came from? Is it part of a delica? It sure seems like not...





so... i figured that if the ninja star jammed the fan... the fuse could have blown (as growlerbearnz predicted). so... I took out the glove box.. all 5 screws.. thanks growlerbearnz.. i would never have known to look back there.

found those fuses:


Guess what... the first one was blown!:


Side question: does anyone know what the other two fuses are for? They were both just fine in mine.

now... a new question. I believe it is the oil cooler "radiator".. please correct me if I'm wrong!!

Mine is a bit filled with mud from the previous guy. Might that be an issue for anything? (edit: apparently that shroud has had a tough life too!!!)





Thanks guys!!!!

off to get a new fuse...

[Growlerbearnz]

Wow, good work!

The throwing stars are just part of owning an ex-Japan vehicle. Keep an eye out for more- if they keep showing up, you've probably got a ninja hidden in your van somewhere. No point looking for him, obviously, just leave a bowl of warm sake out occasionally, and strawberry shortcake at christmas.

The mud-clogged radiator is the second AC condenser. Yes, you have two (one in front of the radiator, and that one). They're plumbed in series, so they act like one great big condenser. Some people believe that the lower one is for the rear AC, but they're wrong. It's all just one big system. That lower condenser also has a fan- it should come on when the AC is on (as should the main fan you've just un-jammed). Definitely wash the mud out of that condenser- if it's clogged, the other condenser will get extra hot, which won't help your radiator any. You'll also get colder air out of your AC.

The two other fuses you found- one runs the lower AC condenser fan, the other runs the magnetic clutch on the AC compressor.

Radiators: you have 5, believe it or not. The engine radiator, 2x AC condensers, 1x oil cooler is in the middle of the bumper, and the loop of pipe on the driver's side of the power steering rack is there for power steering fluid cooling. Autos also have a trans cooler on the driver's side, and if you add an intercooler you're up to 7. Only 3 radiators and 910hp short of a Veyron!

[lookoutworld]

wow. thanks for the info.

I could be wrong.. but I'm pretty sure I don't have functional AC. I have two pullys down there that have no belts. I'll get back to you with more pictures on that.

I'll do the fan clutch test now... hopefuly that electric fan helps me a little. If my only problem was a ninja star blown fuse... that would be AWESOME.

-Scott

[Growlerbearnz]

Even without the belts, if you turn on the AC button (with the heater fan running) the electric radiator fan should come on. FanS, actually, the one on the lower AC condenser should come on as well. Probably a good thing to check. If you're about to drive up a long hill you could turn on the AC, and see if having the fan running makes a difference to coolant temperature.

[lookoutworld]

@growlerbearnz: This is really helpful actually... I was out yesterday driving up big hills to see if I get the fan to turn on. No dice. Your method seems slightly easier.

Van got up to 206F on the head yesterday. (2/3 of factory gauge). I hear 200-210 is fairly normal temp. True? (though I don't know if my TM2 is reading from a location to match that spec from. **Perhaps all of this is normal... and I'm being paranoid.**

Van is in shop today getting a pro look-see. We'll see if anything comes out of it.

Thanks again for all the help,
Scott

[Growlerbearnz]

206 sounds about right if the engine is working hard, and has been for a while. I'm not sure how head temperatures correlate to water temperature, but 2/3 up the gauge sounds about right.

As long as it rises slowly, eventually settles at that 2/3 mark, and drops fairly quickly once you're going downhill again, I'd say it's probably fine. Anything between the two white marks on the gauge is considered "normal". But it's a good idea to get it checked out anyway.

[lookoutworld]

Welp,

I got it up to 208 (on the head) the other day driving up to mt. hood... at night. Had to pull over three times to rev the engine.

I also cant figure out how to get that AC fan to turn on! Even when I push the AC button, it stays still. Maybe I can directly hook it up to a 12v and see if that does something.

Any other ideas why it wouldn't come on? Ah shoot.. i'll need to check that fuse again.. perhaps it blew again?