Engine work under warranty?

joebillhill · Post by **joebillhill** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:08 pm

I'm curious of what you forumees think of my situation.
I've had my van for a few years now and it's been through a lot. I drove it across the states last year and blew the head in South Carolina and on the way back discovered that there was a crack in the block when I was working in Colorado. Needless to say I've been adjusting my driving habits and trying to find that happy medium between driving up a hill without getting everyone and their mother stuck behind me and not being broken down everywhere.
After getting back to Oregon I drove the van up to Canada and took it to a reputable shop to get the bottom end replaced. They remanufactured a block, used the existing head, and installed new water pump, timing belt, and thermostat.
I picked it up and it ran like a dream. started quickly, felt peppier, and just overall felt very smooth on my trip back down to Oregon. Was very satisfied. I was driving it around Portland and the surrounding area no problem. However I have a boost guage and it was reading zero (I attributed it to a hose being pinched or disconnected and nothing major as I had just received the van back from a major overhaul).
I then decided to hop over the cascades to go over to eastern Oregon. Driving up to the summit around Mt. Hood in a torrential downpour the van felt a little underpowered but at the same time after reading the forum I was trying to adjust my driving and keep the rpm's between the 2-3k range . I also have a egt gauge and was keeping the temps around 1000 f. This required me to hop down into second and I even dipped into first for a bit. Obviously going very slow (maybe 30km/hr) I suspected something might be awry but pulling over into the turnouts the vehicle behind me didn't pass so I thought maybe I'm going slow but not unreasonably slow for the grade.
I climbed up to the summit and cruised down the back side all the while curious about the condition of the van (gone are the days of carefree, crank it and go driving

) When I got down to the bottom and had to make another climb it felt really sluggish, I also was watching the side mirror to check the exhaust and since the rain had stopped it looked to be more smoke coming out rather than just the tire spray that I thought it was before.
I pulled over on a side road, hopped out and immediately smelled coolant. I grabbed a flashlight and looked underneath and it was a constant dripping of fluid coming down the front of the engine. I started to try and find the source of the problem but quickly realized that it was out of my league, filled it up with coolant/water, and limped it 15km to the camp spot I was meeting my friends at.
I had an enjoyable weekend of climbing and signed up for AAA to get me towed to a shop.
This was 3000 km after the overhaul and well within the warranty of the shop i had gone to. I called up them up and explained what had happened. They were shocked that I had put it in that low of a gear but told me to take it to a shop to diagnose it. The new shop put it at a failed water pump and the shop sent one down free of charge. They also sent me an email requesting the failed pump to send to their supplier and said they would pay for labor on getting the new one installed.
The new shop put in the water pump and also discovered that my wastegate actuator rod was broken which they fixed and the van has been running well since.
I emailed the shop a copy of the bill I had to pay for the water pump installation and actuator work. I requested that they only pay for the water pump work since they had never touched the actuator. I never received a response and have left a few voice mails to no avail.

I'm just curious if it's reasonable to ask for the reimbursement? Part of me feels like my inability to address the boost issue could have saved my water pump, but the other part feels like I kept it within a reasonable operating range of rpms and temps. I feel like the shop did a bang up job on the van but did they put in a faulty part that should be covered my them/their supplier? Just wanting some outside perspective on the issue. Thanks and well done if you've made it through that rambling mess

Post by **Growlerbearnz** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:11 pm

I'd contact them again, maybe phone them. They sound like a decent place, I wonder if your email just got lost in the "to do" pile.

Since you have an email from them offering to pay for installation of the new pump, I'd keep at it.

ChuckBlack · Post by **ChuckBlack** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:05 pm

There is always a grace period where whichever is being rebuild or replace it needs to be run like you would rent it. Sounds like they are giving you the cold shoulder... Every engine that we rebuild in our shop is put to the hell test before the customer pick it up. Nothing worse than having to come back... To be expected if you are travelling from far to get a repair done in a specific shop. They want you to come back for the repairs and not to be done elsewhere... That said, Growlerbearnz is right.. keep all documentations you have or receive from them and take them to the business bureau if you have to...
good luck!

TieMyShoe · Post by **TieMyShoe** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:31 pm

because a different shop did the labour you may be saddled with the labour bill, the original shop should at minimum give you parts warranty though.

joebillhill · Post by **joebillhill** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:48 pm

Thanks for the responses guys. Called them up and sounds like it's been on the back shelf, Thing should be moving forward next week. Though the pump may not have been sent to the supplier yet so could be a while still...
I've got a question for you Chuck (or anyone who has worked in a shop): when a part fails what's the warranty on the supplier's end?

Post by **Growlerbearnz** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:02 pm

Most workshops would refund the customer immediately rather than waiting to hear back from the supplier. The pump failed because of either a manufacturing defect or an installation error- neither of which are your fault.

Glad you're making progress though.

TieMyShoe · Post by **TieMyShoe** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:43 pm

you have to keep in mind the warranty on parts is given not by the shop but by the parts supplier/manufacturer. Normally this is a 1 year 20 000 sometimes 2 year. Again because another shop is doing the work the original shop may not want to take their diagnosis as final word. Again understandable as they dont know how good this other shop is... ao until rhere is proof the part is faulty they probably wont want want to refund the money.

ChuckBlack · Post by **ChuckBlack** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:32 pm

Can you verify that it is the WP? From the sounds of it, it could have been a loose clamp, or a disconnected hose. I've seen before a thermostat being installed upside down, (meaning that there is a small passage on one side of the thermostat allowing a small amount of coolant flow) and when installed upside down it binds the gasket with heat. A water pump does not usually fail to poor out like you're explaining in your previous post. usually when a WP fails it drips and not poor like a river! I would personally check the WP myself and further diagnose. And if you were able to smell coolant it means that it was spraying and cooking onto the exhaust manifold... If I understand you properly!!!

It is not uncommon to miss diagnose a coolant problem.

We are in a recession, it's too bad but some garages will exaggerate to have the client pay for more than it needs. I've seen it so many times! Good luck!

joebillhill · Post by **joebillhill** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:19 pm

Thanks guys,
The shop i took it to diagnosed it as a failed WP with it leaking out the weep hole if I remember right. I mailed it back to the original shop at their request for them to look at and possibly send it off to their supplier. In an ideal world I would think that the supplier would recognize that they sold a faulty part to the shop and reimburse them the compensation that they would pay to me. We'll see though.
Also, the shop charged me for 4 hours labor to remove/install the WP. Does that seem reasonable?

Post by **Growlerbearnz** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:55 pm

4 hours sounds reasonable for a first time. There are a bunch of shortcuts which can make it far faster, but you don't really figure those out until you've done it the long way a couple of times.

ChuckBlack · Post by **ChuckBlack** » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:32 pm

Sounds like you have it under control then! Hopefully the beast will last much longer!

joebillhill · Post by **joebillhill** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:12 pm

So I was finally able to get a hold of Glen at Coombs and we talked at length about the issue.

He said that the guys in his shop took at a look at the water pump and determined that the inner seal was fine and it was only leaking slightly out of the weep hole. Not enough to drain as much coolant out as I was seeing (which was considerable).
The fact that his mechanics couldn't take a look at it to determine the exact cause was an issue to him as he suspected that there was another issue at fault. The shop that worked on it said nothing about anything other than the water pump leaking out of the weep hole and the wastegate actuator rod being broken and it was been working great since getting it back from them including a drive down, in, and around the Sierras this summer.
I asked, putting everything else aside and focusing on the WP, if I had taken it into the shop in it's condition what the result would be. He said that the WP, even though it was leaking was in a drivable state.
He gave me a 2.5 hr refund (3.5 hr is the amount of time his shop takes for a WP) along with the previous comped water pump he shipped down to me. He also had to pay an import fee on the old WP that I payed to ship up to them.

People can hopefully read this and come to their own conclusions since I'm biased on the issue.

I'm glad I was able to get some compensation but obviously I'm a little disappointed as I'm still out of pocket a couple hundred dollars on a repair that I needed 3,000 km after getting it from their shop. This also happened back in May, and after multiple calls and messages (albeit spaced out) it's taken care of.

Just wanted to post this as a reference for others. I'm going to keep driving my Delica and be happy about that.