Using a heater for winter camping.

[JMK]

I really don't relish sitting around in long dark winter evenings freezing. Like to put a movie on the 17" laptop and snuggle up with my partner and a beer after a good day of AT skiing.

So we stick the Honda 1000i generator behind a snowbank and plug in a 900W electric heater.

Downsides:
900 watts sustained is not quite good enough for outside temps of <-10C. I'd prefer to run a standard 1500W heater and should have bought the next model up generator.
Gas tank is too small, only lasts for about 6 hours on full throttle, have to make up an external tank system out of an outboard marine tank to run it all night.
You're converting energy from the gas engine into heat that just dissipates into the outside air, so unfortunately it's not 100% energy efficient, far from it. This is where a Webasto or Espar would be better.
Can't run a genny in a campground (not our problem in the winter).

Upsides:
These generators have an 'eco throttle', very good on gas and very quiet. The cost of gas to run it overnight is probably 1/4 of that you'd pay for one of the small propane camping canisters.
Can use it to run the recirculating block heater for easy starts in any temperature when returning to trailhead parking after multi day trips or overnight camping.
Can use it to recharge a dead vehicle battery.
No unhealthy or dangerous emmission from electric heat.
No need for installation modifications to the van.

I think I read that if you're running a Webasto you should not run it off your vehicle battery more than 6 hours. And that figure was to run the fuel pump in it, not a fan if I recall correctly.

[capslayer]

I spent the night at the ski hill a couple of times this year. I'd just let the engine idle for a couple of hours a few times each night. I know it's not "enviromentally friendly" but hey, neither is driving. I only spent maybe 10 nights in the van. In total I bet I burned about 1/2 a tank of diesel.

[JMK]

Our mechanic at work told me idling at low RPM's is particularily hard on a diesel engine. When I idle it to keep power to the inverter for short term large loads I use the throttle. I do however also idle it at times to keep warm, especially when I pull over for a one hour nap when driving cross country, but I wish there was a better way.

Here's a myths and facts document on the subject:

http://www.nmenv.state.nm.us/aqb/ghg/do ... dFacts.pdf

[fexlboi]

Interesting document JMK. It would support my opinion on idling, but would be good to know the source though.

[JMK]

Ironically, I find that when I pull over for a nap and it's cold enough to warrant having the heater on, the idle cadence of the diesel engine lulls me off to sleep and helps cloak the other intermittent noises like passing traffic. However I do feel guilty about doing it anyway. It seems to me that in fact it doesn't seem to burn much fuel at slow idle. In spite of our mechanic's advice about using the throttle to bump up the RPM's, I can't quite bring myself to do that unless I've got a load on the inverter.

I too was suprised that a quick Google search on the subject did not turn up more in the ay of authorative studies on the subject.

[jessef]

You can find webasto or espar 2000 series diesel heaters for around 500-800 on ebay.

Lower cost compared to a heater/generator combo.

[Blackberry]

I do however also idle it at times to keep warm, especially when I pull over for a one hour nap when driving cross country, but I wish there was a better way.

...how about turning the engine off and just using a decent sleeping bag and thermarest type sleeping pad underneath? Works for back-country skiers in tents...so should suffice in a van.
BTW - thanks for the interesting link.

[Dave]

I'd def stay away from running a vehicle on idle for any length of time, irrigardless of whether it's bad for the engine. I know of a guy (my mate's surf buddy) who died from carbon monoxide poisening from sleeping in his van with the engine running. Because the van was stationary, the CO seeped back in and killed him. This is why I stay away from running anything in the van which gives off CO, even if the window is cracked.

I was camping in the minus figures the other week and the best way I've found of staying really warm (other than having someone to snuggle up with ) is to use a foam matress (don't use an air bed as they actually draw heat from you), decent sleeping bag or quilt and a good set of thermals. They're great for getting up too. You can jump out of bed and not feel the cold for a while. Oh, and it's nice to have a set of ugg boots to throw on first thing too Proper NZ/Oz ones, not the Chinese rubbish!

Happy camping!

[JMK]

Works for back-country skiers in tents...so should suffice in a van.

Ironically, I just returned from a 5 day backcountry ski trip week before last, so the gear is not the problem. Generally I find on a cross country drive there is a bunch of stuff in the back and re-arranging it for 1 hr of kip is not going to happen.

I really like the idea of an Espar heater, would be interested to see where other Deli owners mounted them.

The generator option however is unavoidable if you are an AT skier. It is my backup when I return to the van after a multi day ski trip and it is -25. I fire up the generator and let it run the recirculating block heater for half an hour while I brew a cuppa, and then getting home from a remote trailhead is not going to be problematic. What I really want to do next is modify the cap so I can set up an external outboard tank as the gas supply. At the moment is only runs for 6 hours. So Sunday night while we were camping at Columbia Icefields it went out around 5 AM. While that is generally good in the spring to beat the isothermal snowpack, as it turns out on Monday we had to wait until after lunch to get some decent turns, so we had a nap at treeline.



Deli at the Icefields Sunday night. Great place to watch a movie on the notebook before bed. As you can see, we had it all to ourselves, which suprises me. We did stop at Rampart Creek to meet the Deli owner houseparent who is also a member on this forum (Tyler I think), but they were away for a break. I am however, drinking one of the three Beck's we found on his lawn near the burnt-out sauna at this very moment, and it is indeed a treat, as normally I cannot afford to drink Beck's.

[Firesong]

I had actually just put in a propane heater into my 74 westie this past fall. (Then sold the bus :) Anyway one precaution I had for it was plugging in a CO/Propane/Natural Gas detector. Got it at CanTire for $50.00. I would say that the furnace I bought to put in it was too large for the job. I would go for a smaller one and quieter vans. I would have no qualms using a diesel heater either. Not sure which space I would like to give up though :)

J

****I'd def stay away from running a vehicle on idle for any length of time, irrigardless of whether it's bad for the engine. I know of a guy (my mate's surf buddy) who died from carbon monoxide poisening from sleeping in his van with the engine running. ****