Turning on Pavement while in 4wd

[Firesong]

Regardless, sometime I will find the other thread talking about it.

regarding:
I do think I found the UK site that has the other manual hubs:
http://www.milneroffroad.com/categories ... D=9412&p=2
********
They emailed me back :
********
Thank you for your enquiry. The manual free wheel hubs are £62.00 each and shipping to Canada would be £35.00 - £48.00 depending on your where you are in Canada.

Thanks, Matthew
*****
Nice if we could find someone on this shore.

Firesong

[jwfchase]

I too am HIGHLY suspicious of this claim as I have reversed and rocked the vehicle in 4wd several times without hearing or feeling any evidence of it unlocking/relocking.

Maybe yours was functioning as designed and his are wearing out? If someone says this has/is happening to them, I have no reason to doubt them!

[Green1]

I too am HIGHLY suspicious of this claim as I have reversed and rocked the vehicle in 4wd several times without hearing or feeling any evidence of it unlocking/relocking.

Maybe yours was functioning as designed and his are wearing out? If someone says this has/is happening to them, I have no reason to doubt them!

The claim was that ALL of them do this... that's the part I am suspicious of... (I don't doubt that a malfunctioning one COULD)

[jaggedfish]

I will happily post my video this weekend if it will make believers out of you guys. Let me assure you it DOES happen!

Backing up longer distances doesnt do it as this would result in the hubs relocking over the distance. Just a little rocking doesn't seem to do it always. I have repeatedly produced this by backing up about 1 to 2 feet then going forward again when stuck. Seems like just enough to disengage the hubs which then take a moment to re-engage.

Trust me on this... I am experienced enough to know when my hubs aren't locked and what it sounds and feels like when they engage under these circumstances. Will post vid very soon for all to see.

[Green1]

perhaps there is something wrong with your hubs then? because I never saw / heard / felt / noticed any such behaviour with the auto-hubs in my L300, and I tried pretty much every possible combination of forward, backward, rocking, etc imaginable. those hubs never unlocked except by long reverses in 2wd

[Firesong]

Nothing we can say can change your mind.
So theirs really no point discussing this unless I can find
that link that was discussing it in detail and with the mechanical
reasons of it.
Maybe we push them a little harder ;)

FS

[mararmeisto]

Nothing we can say can change your mind.
So theirs really no point discussing this unless I can find
that link that was discussing it in detail and with the mechanical
reasons of it.
Maybe we push them a little harder ;)

FS

Did you find those manual hubs? Good luck, especially since you're not happy with the way your van is working. I think the manual hubs will remedy your dissatisfaction.

Part of the reason why I changed out my 'auto' hubs was for this similar reason. When I removed the hubs for the changeover, it didn't seem like they were 'locking' hubs but 'unlocking' hubs (just the way the mechanism seemed to move).

Others have pointed out that it's not the wheel disengaging from the axle (like a manual hub would do), but the front drive shaft disengaging from the transfer case. I never investigated it much further than my hubs, but there has to be some form of hub activity going on because those that have the locked hubs can shift on the fly all the time.

That just what I saw - not saying it's right or wrong, just what I observed.

[jaggedfish]

I guess we've sort of highjacked the original intent of the topic but it is somewhat related.

The issue I speak of is definitely a hub thing, not a transfer case thing. It can happen that both hubs will lock at slightly different times depending on the circumstances (there are many). If it were the transfer case there would always be one clunk instead of two. Not saying there wouldn't be issues with the t-case but that would feel much different than what I am experiencing. Because the driver sits right on top of the wheels in an L300 the sound is very "locatable". Can also tell when one front wheel is locked and the other isn't when the suspicious unlock occurs.

I am not doubting this could indeed be a malfunction of the hubs - I would certainly hope they are not supposed to do that - or it could just be a flaw in the design associated with the "auto" factor. After all, these are purely mechanical... no electronics, no thought process, and thus not every situation can be accounted for in designing these things.

The good part is the hubs always do re-lock after said "body cringing sound" and I have been able to extricate myself from where I was to the sound of my cousin's laughter (and yes, he has a Delica too).

Good discussion on this!
Cheers!
Ian

Edit...Had one more thought on this... if it were a t-case problem, the same clunk would /should occur even with manual hubs.

[Firesong]

I agree with the last post. It's def a hub thing and not a transfer case thing.
In the snow on the ice with the door open you can def tell the thunk's origin.
It doesn't happen all the time, just when your really trying to get through,
out, unstuck and working it. (Just a note: I'm definitely not new to 4x4's,
and bush travel, off road is old hat. Im not doing something wrong, dropping
the clutch or anything crazy)

It's not 'dissatisfaction', it's just a thought that having a manual mechanism
rather than 'auto' might be a little more solid in the long run. And I hate
that odd time you hear the thunk. The reason for my previous post was
that two or three people can banter back and forth on yes/no/yes/no
doubt/belief/doubt.. There was no point to it. I got the picture the
first time it was said.

Still looking for that post. It's amazing how many pages of stuff have terms
such as lock, auto-hubs, manual, hubs, thunk, clunk, unlock... or any combination
of them with more specific things like replacing, removing, changing..

FS

[BCDelica]

The hub ‘clunk’ in question; does it occur for you when the wheels have a good bite and/or on a flat low traction surface with the weight distributed equally?

We carried two sets of V-bar chains and a come along, as our recovery equipment for wet coast trails, and found in a situation where we'd chained up all four tires for safe passage (just have ride those quad trails) had the loud ‘ca-chunk’ happen. Well maneuvering on tight situation of wet ground and roots, with lots of back and forth trying to avoid the trees. Can only remember it occuring in these situations, and given the Delicas are the only vehicles we’ve owned with auto hubs, we were concerned also. Found some threads on ih8mud and 4x4wire that explained the reason in detail; because our old pickup with manual hubs never made those noises for us. So, for someone determined to arrive at local quad hangouts driving a mini van, installing manual hubs would be a good idea.

Cheers

[Erebus]

I think I just figured out what is happening. Okay, so an auto hub unlocks when you back up in 2WD. Thinking about what must happen: it is that the wheel is turning but the driveshaft isn't.

Now, you are stuck, you put it in reverse, and give it gas. One front tire (say passenger side) is in a no-traction situation, so it spins. The front diff sends all power to that wheel, and the driver's side driveshaft isn't moving. Your rear wheels get some traction and the Delica moves rearward. So, that driver's side hub sees wheel turning, driveshaft not turning, and unlocks.

Once that happens, if you are still reversing, all the power from the front driveshaft will be diverted by the front differential to the driver's side, since it has less resistance than the passenger's driveshaft. Hence the passenger side now unlocks.

Does that make sense?

The clunk is a nastiness you want to avoid. It comes from the hub locking while the driveshaft and the wheel are turning at different speeds. Not good for it. That's one of the reasons I changed over to manual hubs.

And back to the original question, a little bit of driving on high traction won't kill everything instantly -- the weakest link in the entire driveline is the tire-surface coefficient of friction. You will get wheel-hop as the strain is relieved. Been there, done that. No, it isn't good, but it isn't like it will blow up your transfer case in 10 feet.

Another tidbit: you don't have to back up to unlock the hubs, although that is the normal. It is when you shift from 4H to 2H, then drive in the other direction. So if you go from 4H to 2H while reversing, then the hubs will unlock if you drive forward. That I've tested and proven. It's just that we usually do the shifting while going forward, so we always talk about backing up to unlock.