CANADA'S TOUGHEST IMPAIRED DRIVING PENALTIES START SEPT. 20

[FalcoColumbarius]

Whoa.... And all I did was alter my intake manifold.

It's too late now ~ I'll get back to you guys tomorrow. Good night... smiles.

Falco.

[drrod]

I have spent quite a bit of time traveling in various parts of Europe. Many things stand out as being different from Canada. Not the least of which is the competency of the drivers. I asked my friends in Spain (BAC .03) if they had a big problem with impaired drivers (as we were having wine with our lunch). I got an interesting reply. "....not really. first we teach our children to drink, then we teach them how to drive...." When you stop and think about it, maybe there is something to that. On many occasions I witnessed parents serving wine to their young children (12 -15 yrs) with their meal. Don't get me wrong, there are still impaired drivers on the road there. Just not as many (per capita basis) as here. It is not as socially acceptable there to drink and drive as it is here.
Our culture makes it "taboo" to drink until you are well past the age when you can get a driver's license. By the time you can legally drink, you have had just enough driving experience to think you are an expert driver and can handle anything. Combine that with the impairment of any kind (especially a drug that you can now legally obtain) and you have a problem.
In today's world of video games, gory car accident pictures, etc. are not going to have much impact on an adolescence's mindset. The teaching of social responsibility has to be the starting point but in today's society, a lot of parents have abdicated their role in the upbringing of their children. Relying instead on the schools, etc. Draconian impaired driving laws may have a slight impact, but the real problem has to be addressed in the home. Society and culture has to be the source of the solution, not the legal system.

Funny how you can die for your country at an age when it is illegal to drink. Somehow seems incongruous .

website for how other countries deal with impaired driving

http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/rese ... c449518803

Rod

[manic29]

...The teaching of social responsibility has to be the starting point but in today's society, a lot of parents have abdicated their role in the upbringing of their children. Relying instead on the schools, etc. Draconian impaired driving laws may have a slight impact, but the real problem has to be addressed in the home. Society and culture has to be the source of the solution, not the legal system....

could not agree more! thanks.

[konadog]

Great post drrod!

[ShaneA]

Wow, I'm a bit surprised about the debate this has spurred. I was just trying to put some information out there and didn't expect much to come of it. There have been some great points raised here, it's good to see this community is concerned about our personal liberties, social responsibility, the health of our economy and our environment.

Perhaps this is a bit of a cash grab by the government, but don't get me started on that (12% "hst" on private sales of vehicles now, come on!). I agree that penalties are too soft and should result in stiffer suspensions and definitely more strict criminal penalties if you injure or kill someone.

As you can see in drrod's link, Canada is still one of the few countries that has .08 as the legal limit. The majority of countries on every other continent has a .05 BAC or lower legal limit. I'm not saying that we should do it just because they do it, but all those other countries must have reasons for it.

I agree with the idea that our society is not taking responsibility to properly educate our young people. It's sad that families can't afford to live on a single income and have a parent home to raise the children. Even worse are families where the mother is home and the family still has a nanny to raise the children (yes, I've seen this when my son was in a West Vancouver elementary school). Our government is a business (albeit a poorly run business) and the goal of any business is profit, whether that comes from taxes on gambling, alcohol, cigarettes, fuel, income or drunk driving fines. Why get taxes from one person in the family when they can get taxes from both, plus the nanny or daycare worker looking after the kids?

Unfortunately there are a lot of bad drivers out there. I see incidents similar to what Falco described nearly every time I'm on the road. Trust me it's a lot more scary when you're on a bicycle. Does anyone think that the woman Falco described is going to be a responsible driver when it comes to drinking when she can't even be responsible about not playing with her cel phone while she's driving?

My biggest problem is with enforcement. Is this really going to be enforced? Is it really going to make a difference? I was happy when I heard they were banning cel phone use while driving. Unfortunately I still see people doing it regularly, so I don't feel that law has really made our roads any safer.

[FalcoColumbarius]

Okay. Firstly I would like to commend Drrod for a very eloquent glass of spring water that has refreshed this discussion.

I learned to drive in the UK and I tell you that it was much harder to pass that test than the one I took at the North Vancouver Motor Vehicle Branch. The difference is that in the UK I was constantly merited for the things I did well and encouraged for the things I needed to learn better. I was not spoon fed, the questions and exercises were difficult ~ but I was encouraged to learn the answers in a way that expanded my knowledge in a positive and comprehensive manner.

When I took my BC license it was a piece of cake. Granted I studied hard but I found that they did not ask very difficult questions... Wot's that! Well..... it's a yield sign, in'ut. I was happy to have my license and drove along my merry way. When it came to my son learning to drive I began by vetting driving schools. I would walk into a driving school, ask to speak with an instructor ~ then ask him a series of questions: "How far does it take an average two tonne vehicle to stop when travelling at 50 KPH?" and so on. A surprising number could not satisfactorily answer the questions.

Drrod, you mention our ccccc...... our ccccuuu... our cullllllllllt......... ccccuuullltture. I think this is the root of the issue. Teach the children how to drink, how to measure ~ then they have a better understanding. The point is: It's the parents, not the schools, not the daycares and not those stuffed shirts in Victoria or Ottawa. Charity starts at home and primary skills of life fall into that category. I was a single working father and I managed it. Since time in memoriam hunter/gathering parents have been taking their children to work with them, so... our situation is not unique in that respect. The problem with leaving social responsibility with the government is they begin to tell you what to do. Then they enact more laws ~ to a point that it is difficult to live without contravening one law or another and the police are no longer the friend of society and we live in a police state.

And Glenn, what's with all this scientific data and psychology? For one ~ you are preaching to the choir. I know full well what has happened on the watch of my generation. This has to be the ultimate reason why we are having this discussion in the first place. What really needs to be done is the taking back of the neighbourhood from the corporate psychopaths.

• "Ah, yes ~ loyalty. Loyalty used to be the currency of the realm. Now the currency of the realm is.... well..... currency" -Pirates Of The Caribbean".

Last night I parked down on Robson Street, put three bucks into the meter, looked up and nothing had registered. I called the number on the side of the machine. The woman at the end of the line said that many meters on Robson Street had been reported, why not give her my credit card number and she could bill me that way. I replied that I had already paid and my dinner was on the table in the restaurant. Well, you can't legally park there if the meter is broken and you could get a $70 ticket, you should have a credit card. "What and get myself in debt like much of the nation? I don't think so". A spot became available across the street so I took it and spent another three bucks. What gets me about this is potentially getting railroaded into a deal with the municipal government. We digress.

ShaneA, regarding the Horrible Sales Tax, they also slipped in a new "Carbon Tax", and an "Environmental Fee". And they all commenced on 1 July. Everyone thought they were celebrating Canada Day but it turned out to be "Diamonds In The Sky".... What drivel! This is a mass reaping of human resources. As Glenn says, "....the information is all around you, just start connecting the dots."

As for Delicat, who is putting the pounds on with all the buttered popcorn he's consuming, we can discuss this around a camp fire at the end of the world with the damned... smiles.

By the way, my question doesn't appear to have been answered:

Point of observation: Since the advent of helmet laws (take your pick)... has our health care improved or become cheaper?

Falco.

[delicat]

To answer your question Falco, YES it got worse but nothing to do with bicycle helmet law... it's all the popcorn that's to blame...

(And the fact that back in the days people didn't go to hospital unless they were missing a limb and weren't eating all the crap we're now eating and the air was still breathable and so on,...)

[glenn]

Hey Falco,

You don't disappoint with your ability to keep a level head - it can be hard sometimes with chat rooms because so much nuance is lost.

My wife teaches high school english - and she has taught 1984. The main reason it is not used as much anymore is because it is not as relevant as it was during the cold war, and the post communist era. Last year, she had her kids read the young adult novel "little brother" by Cory Doctorow - a personal hero of mine, and a canadian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Bro ... w_novel%29 Cory Doctorow was one of the founders of the EFF (electronic frontier foundation) and who is responsible for things like the creative commons license for intellectual property rights.
While not as "high literature" as 1984, rest assured the kids today are still fighting the good fight - and with the awareness of all the new threats to privacy and personal freedom that the internet affords.

As far as my "your generation" comment - I'm not very far removed from it either.

Oh, and DRINK, DON'T DRIVE! (I use this all the time now - thanks David)

Glenn

[jessef]

Starting from drinking and driving law to education and upbringing in the household.

I love it when threads like these smooth out to a nice sitting around the campfire feel.

[FalcoColumbarius]

Ahhh? Come on you guys! Let's not get all warm and fuzzy now.....

[konadog]

My wife teaches high school english - and she has taught 1984. The main reason it is not used as much anymore is because it is not as relevant as it was during the cold war, and the post communist era.

1984 is SOOOOO still relevant - more than ever in many ways. It's not about communism it's about totalitarianism...
Orwell himself said:
[1984] is NOT intended as an attack on Socialism or on the British
Labour Party (of which I am a supporter), but as a show-up of the
perversions to which a centralized economy is liable and which have
already been partly realized in Communism and Fascism. I do not
believe that the kind of society I describe necessarily will arrive,
but I believe (allowing for the fact the book is a satire) that something
resembling it could arrive. I believe also that totalitarian ideas
have taken root in the minds of intellectuals everywhere, and I have
tried to draw these ideas out to their logical consequences. The
scene of the book is laid in Britain in order to emphasize that the
English-speaking races are not innately better than anyone else
and that totalitarianism, if not fought against, could triumph
anywhere.

Btw, have you been filmed on a surveillance camera lately... Big Brother IS watching YOU just as Orwell warned us could happen...

[DelicaDJ]

*Bump*
This is an important topic, one that all parents should be concerned about.

[FalcoColumbarius]

Make your point then... smiles.

[konadog]

*Bump*
This is an important topic, one that all parents should be concerned about.

I totally agree - it's SHOCKING how many kids haven't read 1984!!

[DelicaDJ]

*Bump*
This is an important topic, one that all parents should be concerned about.

I totally agree - it's SHOCKING how many kids haven't read 1984!!

Well, consider this, I'm 25 & haven't read 1984, SO THERE!