Replaced failed auto hubs - still no 4x4????

[Jedidiahwiebe]

Hey, Everybody. After completing most of the "deli-tune" with satisfactory results I just completed my hub upgrade. I replaced the stock autos with Rugged Ridge hubs after the autos seemed to fail. But now I find that 4x4 will not engage. What the Heck? The 4x4 was working before the hub swap. By that i mean that it was working some of the time - but I just assumed that the problem was that the hubs were not engaging as indeed they occasionally seemed to slip in and out and make an atrocious grinding noise. (But this sound only occurred while in two wheel drive) Further evidence that this was the problem is that the one hub that did not make the noise remained engaged all the time, while the noisy one engaged and disengaged properly, just made an AWFUL noise at random intervals - forcing me to slow to a stop - at which point it would go bang and the noise would stop - allowing me to drive again in 2 wheel drive. 4x4 presented no problem. It drove fine in 4x4
I am at a loss, as the 4x4 was working just the other day. Does the transfer case tend to just fail all of a sudden out of the blue like that? Is my problem potentially in the front diff?

[jaggedfish]

A couple of questions...
1.Where are you located? If you are living in a cold climate, there is a chance that the cold can cause the autohubs to partially freeze and make a strange whirring noise. If this happens, pull over and stop, shift into 4wd and roll forward for a moment to engage the hubs, then put it back in 2wd and do the reverse thing to unlock them. If they are sticking because of cold this action will get things moving again.
2. Are you sure the one hub that made noise was engaged? Is it possible it was disengaged?
3. Don't know if this is possible for sure and may sound like a dumb question but... are you certain your manual hubs had the correct spline size? If 4wd is not working at all after the swap and the problem is truly hub-related, something is preventing the power from getting to the wheels. If the drive shafts are spinning inside the hubs but the spline size of the hubs are too large, the wheels will not be driven.
4. Are you absolutely certain the noise was from the hubs? A transfer case will generally not fail without some kind of noise. If the noise was indeed from the t-case, that could be bad.

The problem could also be the front diff but that should have made a noise too. These things have lots of gears and teeth that are always engaged and shredding teeth makes bad sounds or even punches holes in things.

Perhaps look at the simple stuff first. Confirm the spline size matches - I know it sounds dumb but that would make certain your problem doesn't lie there. Even dumber question... when you tried 4wd, you did manually lock the hubs by turning the dial on both hubs... right? Ensure also the hubs are indeed locking when the dial is turned to lock.

Just throwing stuff out there to try to help. Best of luck with it and I sincerely hope it's not a major failure.

[Jedidiahwiebe]

I am located in Salmon Arm BC. the autos did indeed start giving me problems when we had a cold snap. And I was doing exactly what you said. Stoping and going backwards. But to no avail. The one hub simply would not disengage. Even if i pushed the spline sleeve while my girlfriend drove it in reverse. It would go in, but immediately pop back out. Anyways that's neither here nor there as the autos are now in the garbage.
I am fairly certain that the rugged ridge manual hubs that i installed are a correct spline shaft fit. I measured them with my verneer caliper and they seem to match the old hubs to a tolerance of a few hundredths of a mm.
I am 95 percent sure that the sound was coming from the old auto hubs. The transfer case is a loooooong way away from the direction the sound came from. And i dont think it came from the diff. It really seemed to come from the hub.
Which leaves the question. Will the transfer case or front diff simply fail with no warning sounds?
There are now no odd sounds. Only an odd lack of power to the front wheels.

[jaggedfish]

Okay... good feedback. The nature of the problem seems to lead back to the hubs if I was to guess.

If your tolerances on your measurements were that close then the splines should engage if the hubs are locked. The question now would be whether the hubs are indeed locking when they are supposed to. If you had functioning 4wd prior to changing the hubs and the only thing you changed were the hubs, the suspicion would lead back to the hubs first. Any failures in the diff would most likely cause bad noises or at least a bang. Broken front axle, maybe? Others more experienced may also be able to shed light on this.

If you roll in neutral in 2wd with hubs locked, I believe the front drive shaft should spin as this should engage the driveline back to the t-case. Driveshaft should not spin with hubs unlocked and in 2wd. This would at least identify if the problem is between the t-case and the wheels.

To check t-case drive... the front driveshaft should be driving while in 4wd and free while in 2wd.

Hope this helps.

[Jedidiahwiebe]

Really good points. I shall do this as soon as i get unstuck from my (relatively) flat driveway ditch. Snow and 2 wheel drive do not seem to be highly compatible in this bad boy.

[Jedidiahwiebe]

Sooooo..... Turned out that one of my new Rugged Ridge hubs was not engaging. I can't tell you if it is the hubs fault, or if it was the installer (my) fault. I took the one problem hub apart. Made sure that the outer assembly was in the locked position and then rotated it from spline to spline (hub engagement splines, not axle splines) until it slid in. When i initially installed it i followed the instructions which stated "place outer hub assembly in the free position - then bolt it on".

Serves me right for blindly following instructions that come from GM motor corp. Everything seems to work fine now.

Fingers crossed.

[jaggedfish]

So glad to hear it was a relatively simple problem!

[Jedidiahwiebe]

Thanks a bunch eh!

[jessef]

Glad you got it sorted.

I wonder why the instructions say to install it in open2wd ?

I've always installed manual hubs while they are in the locked position.

[Jedidiahwiebe]

i know right? Maybe its cause it's made in China and is one of those 'lost in translation' things.
Maybe the wrote it on backwards day?

Doesnt make sense to me.

[jaggedfish]

This could be a good reason for us men to continue to not read instructions Next thing you know we will be reading maps and getting lost instead of using our Spidey senses to get to where we're going.

Cheers!