She just died!! Now it won't start! Any ideas

[FalcoColumbarius]

The L300 2.5 engine does not need electicity to run......

Does the Injector Pump not need power to pump? I am pretty sure that the IP is electrical.

You know what it is, Arnold ~ it's those white windscreen wipers.... Call Jay ~ he is good at this sort of stuff and I believe he secretly loves the challenge. It must be a little disconcerting to suddenly have everything go out on you, especially when you're driving. I also find it interesting that the power should all go out then come back on again, like a back-up system kicked in... What kind of alternator do you have with your engine? Is it the Winter package one? Might be a good idea to have the stronger alternator with your rig.

Falco.

[thedjjack]

IP is mechanical however it cannot pump fuel without fuel to pump and has an electrical fuel shut of solenoid on the back.

Here:
http://www.delica.ca/forum/fuel-shut-of ... +fuel+shut

according to the post energy to open fuel...removal of power to turn off engine.

[jaggedfish]

Please allow me to step into the fray.

This sounds to me to be multiple problems that MAY have a single source. The forgotten part is the starter motor not engaging the engine to crank it over - check the throw bearing for one and ensure starter hasn't come loose from it's mounts. Yes, if everything shut down at once, it would likely indicate a common problem but one cannot confirm there is a fuel delivery problem until the engine can be cranked. Right now, it sounds as though the reason for the Mighty Whitey not cranking/starting is the starter motor. Begin there. Get the throw bearing/starter to work first.

While the engine doesn't require electricity to run, if all the electrical stops functioning, would it not be the same as turning the key off? Could simply point to a main fuse or a loose wire causing the electrical to shut off and thus turning the engine off. Then the re-start problem is separate in that the throw bearing isn't engaging the flywheel. My bet is if you can get the starter to engage, the van will fire and you will be on your way. The electrical problem will need tracing... start at the battery end as total shut down would be caused by a loose or temporarily dead connection at a place common to all electrics.

It's early in the morning so I hope this made sense...
Hope this helps a little anyway.
Cheers!
Ian

[drrod]

If you turn it over and let it idle.. then disconnect the battery, you can drive it until you turn it off.

Not to continue the "argument" but........
If I am not mistaken, most gasoline powered vehicles, with a proper functioning alternator/charging system, will also continue running if you disconnect the battery. I know my Suburban does as well as my motorcycles. I wouldn't want to guess on a more "modern", fully computerized, afraid to touch the damn thing, car! The true test would be to also disconnect the alternator as well.

Rod

[RichD]

If you disconnect the alternator, there is no power to run the engine's electrical systems...

[jessef]

I tried it this morning just to put it to rest.

Start up. Disconnect battery. Drive. Keep driving. Keep driving. No problem. Mechanical engine, injection pump, etc.. reconnect battery. Turn off.

My battery fried two summers ago and took out my alternator in my L300 while in Kamloops driving south. Zero voltage at the alternator and zero at the battery terminals. Both were toast. Luckily, it was still running and I was able to drive it home. Diesel you can fill up with the engine still running so I drove it from Kamloops all the way home with no battery in the battery tray. Drove straight to canadian tire and install a new battery. Then shut it off. Then turned it on and voltage was good everywhere.

Not a fairytale but one with a point.

[Mr. Flibble]

Green1 tended to never be wrong and never backed off, until the day he quit the forum and deleted all his post.

I hope I do not have an electrical problem, I just booked Joshua Tree National Park for after Christmas....Road Trip!

GREEN1 WAS NOT WRONG AND HE NEVER ARGUED AND HE KNEW MORE ABOUT TURBOS THAN ANYONE! DON'T YOU REMEMBER ANYTHING! YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thedjjack]

I tried it this morning just to put it to rest.

Start up. Disconnect battery. Drive. Keep driving. Keep driving. No problem. Mechanical engine, injection pump, etc.. reconnect battery. Turn off.

My battery fried two summers ago and took out my alternator in my L300 while in Kamloops driving south. Zero voltage at the alternator and zero at the battery terminals. Both were toast. Luckily, it was still running and I was able to drive it home. Diesel you can fill up with the engine still running so I drove it from Kamloops all the way home with no battery in the battery tray. Drove straight to canadian tire and install a new battery. Then shut it off. Then turned it on and voltage was good everywhere.

Not a fairytale but one with a point.

I have no problem with this now disconnect the alternator = no motor running.

you need 12V to keep fuel flowing to the injector pump. I actually am leaning to a ground problem. If the ground is lost on the motor/chassis = no motor running.

My question to you is how does your motor turn off? If it is truly mechanical then you would push a lever or close a valve to turn it off or the key switch would be vacuum. It is an electrical valve that allows flow of fuel.

I can drive my ford escort with the battery out as the alternator provides 12V to the computer.

[Blackberry]

Start up. Disconnect battery. Drive. Keep driving. Keep driving. No problem. Mechanical engine, injection pump, etc.. reconnect battery. Turn off.

I don't doubt it'll run with no elec. power. So I'm wondering, though, how does turning the key off cause the engine to stop? I recall there's a wire or 2 connected to the IP. So does that power a fuel shut-off solenoid/valve? If so how does that work? Key on = sol. powered = holding valve open...key off = no power to sol. = valve shut? If so then when you drove with no power had you bypassed this system? Or is it some kind of timed system, such as: default is valve open and key off just starts a timer to power sol. for a short time to close valve? (so no power = no (easy) way to shut off engine?)

[thedjjack]

I don't doubt it'll run with no elec. power. So I'm wondering, though, how does turning the key off cause the engine to stop? I recall there's a wire or 2 connected to the IP. So does that power a fuel shut-off solenoid/valve? If so how does that work? Key on = sol. powered = holding valve open...key off = no power to sol. = valve shut? If so then when you drove with no power had you bypassed this system? Or is it some kind of timed system, such as: default is valve open and key off just starts a timer to power sol. for a short time to close valve? (so no power = no (easy) way to shut off engine?)

According to:

His alternator is supplying 12 volts to hold the IP fuel shut off solenoid open.


Here:
http://www.delica.ca/forum/fuel-shut-of ... +fuel+shut

according to the post 12volts constant supply to open fuel...removal of power to shuts fuel supply and turns off engine.

[RichD]

I tried it this morning just to put it to rest.
Start up. Disconnect battery. Drive. Keep driving. Keep driving. No problem. Mechanical engine, injection pump, etc.. reconnect battery. Turn off.

I assume that you pulled the ground off the battery negative terminal, removing the battery load from the circuit but leaving the vehicle ground intact and the rest of the circuit hot. The alternator output, and all the vehicle systems like ignition are still connected together. Effectively, the vehicle is running off its own generated power - by design.

You succeeded in testing your alternator, that's about it. (I should also point out that, without the battery to eat the excess current, you could actually damage your vehicle electrics doing this. The battery, even when charged, is a resistor and is going to convert the power to heat.)


As for "how does turning the key turn off shut down the engine immediately", its simple. The motor turns off by opening the ignition circuit. Shutting off fuel feed and stuff like that is a nice touch but the instant stall is cause by lack of ignition. If you repeat experiment above and disconnect the ignition power you will find the truck stalls.

I'm not a mechanic but this is combustion engine basics.

[thedjjack]

Rich, its a diesel so not the "ignition" as a diesel works with compression.

You compress the fuel like 20+:1 and it explodes on its own. No spark required!

To turn off a diesel you do 1 of three things:
1 remove the compression (blow the head off or a hole in each cylinder
2 remove the oxygen recent done by a form member by sucking a rag into the turbo
3 remove the fuel.

when you turn off the key it turns off power to the Fuel Shut Off Solenoid on the back of the IP pump. No fuel, the motor shuts off.

If you lose electrical it shuts off just like you turned the key. OFF. Trust me mine does it in traffic sometimes until I fixed the electrical issues. Luck has it I am a 5 speed so once power restored it re-starts.

[RichD]

Rich, its a diesel so not the "ignition" as a diesel works with compression

Ah yer right. I didn't know this about diesels until you pointed it out. Googled for clarity. Neat!

Glow plugs are just helping it along until the compression is high enough to self-ignite.

[FalcoColumbarius]

I think this thread deserves a pink sticky.

Falco.

[jaggedfish]

There are some good points in this and I think the source of the Mighty Whitey van shutting off is evident... electrical shutdown = engine shutdown due to fuel solenoid shutting off the fuel. When power was restored allowing SE to attempt to start the van again, he stated it did not re-start due to the starter not engaging to crank the motor. So, there is still the issue of the starter not engaging as I mentioned earlier in the thread - I would guess most likely a separate problem. There MAY be an electrical reason for the throw bearing not engaging the flywheel when SE tried to restart... low voltage caused by the electrical problem MAY not spin the starter fast enough to cause the throw bearing to throw and engage the starter with the motor - I don't know how likely this is to be a realistic cause but may be. Regardless, there is still an issue there over and above the debated shut-down issue - more likely mechanical if I had to guess.

I know I learned something reading this so far...

Good luck to SE! Please let us know the outcome!
Cheers!
Ian