Starting troubles...

[Johnny&Ruby]

Hey oh! So Juniper has been curbside for a week or so (not due to problems or anything, I've just been walking to work, last time we took her out was Sunday and she ran fine then) and today when we went to start her, we got nothing, or, more specifically, we got the following sequence of events...

- key in ignition (half turn to run the glow plugs)
- glow plugs activated (2 clicks like usual)
- key turned to start
- nothing... no sound, no whining, no engagement of the engine at all
- all interior lights did go out, however (dash, clock, the little air freshener in the cigarette lighter)
- glow plugs were heard firing repeatedly in rapid sequence (click-click-click-click-click and so on)
- turned key back to halfway position
- glow plugs stop clicking
- all lights back on, and all electricals (power windows, headlights, etc) functioning at full power

The wife thinks it may have something to do with the car alarm, but I'm not so sure. I'm going to check the battery connections first off, but the complete lack of any engine noise at all is worrying me. Would appreciate your thoughts and, if you're living in Victoria and are anywhere near Cook St Village tomorrow, a house call would not be unwelcome! We will of course provide you with coffee and treats!

Thanks!

later: Tried it again just now with the seats up and as far as I can tell, nothing moves at all. Is this a starter issue? Do I need to jump her? Because all the electricals seem to be at full power. And if I do need to jump, how do I get at the batteries? It is a mess of wiring in there and I'm a-feared of wrecking something in my attempt to get at the terminals in the back... advice sorely needed! Thanks again.

[nxski]

The clicking of the glow plugs could possibly suggest an ecu problem or glow plug relay. All of the other symptoms sound like the alternator. I figured out my alternator had gone when I tried starting it to no avail and then left the lights on until they started to dim. When that happened I made sure to put a charger on it as soon as possible and left it overnight (jumpstarting didn't work at all)

[Johnny&Ruby]

Steven from Rising Sun Imports emailed us on this and suggested testing whether the starter was good (or not) by putting the key in the start position and running the shifter through N, R & D several times and then trying to start it. And it totally did. Which means we're looking at battery issues, likely...

[FalcoColumbarius]

I would say battery. Either dealing with dirty terminals or time for a new battery. That would be my guess. How old is the battery and what is it?

Falco.

[BFG]

Yep deffo the Battery (or a battery problem of somekind i.e. terminals) in my opinion. I had exactly the same problem when my 2 and a half year old daughter left one of the roof map reading lights on whilst playing and car was parked for 4 days before my son noticed the dull glow comming from the bulb doh!
2 clicks of the glow plugs, turn the key and click click click click click - recharged the battery over night and was fine the next day!

[jaggedfish]

I agree... battery. Lights, etc don't draw much from the battery so they will come on. Cranking the motor (or trying to) will draw a LOT from the battery. When you turn the ignition to start, the lights, stereo, etc will go off to give as much juice to the starter as possible - normal.

I suggest re-charging the battery or having it tested if it's old. If you are running a security system, that would be enough draw to drain your battery in a week if the van is sitting. Seen it many times.

Cheers!
Ian

[thedjjack]

try twisting the terminals on the batteries it could be a poor connection.

Still no go try charging them.

[Johnny&Ruby]

Hi folks. We figure it's a battery drain for sure. Steve at Rising Sun emailed us privately and told us to try shifting it through P, N and D a couple times before trying to start it. And it started first time! So, it's not the starter, it's the battery. But we took it for an hours run around town last night in the hopes that that would charge them up again. Gonna pop out for breakfast in a little bit here, and see if that made any difference.

So, in lieu of getting new batteries, do you suggest simply running her more often to keep things charged up?

[FalcoColumbarius]

Drive to Lordco. For less that five bucks you can purchase a nifty little tool for cleaning both your terminals and the cable ends ~ it's a little wire brush in a cup affair, better than a Kinder surprise! Take the cable ends off of the battery; screw the cup part over the terminals (wire brush on the inside of the cup cleans the terminal of corrosion); then take the protruding wire brush part of the tool and clean out the insides of the cable ends. Tightly reattach cables to terminals and put some Vaseline over top of the connexions, then go for a nice cruise up the Malahat and have lunch in Chemainus.

Another point to think about is the battery itself: How old is the battery? Where was the battery made? If it was made in Mexico there is a very good chance that the manufacturing is substandard with weld points that snap. I know this because I am going through this senario right now.
I had a battery made by "Globelite" that lasted me ten years, two Chevy Vans & two Plymouth Voyagers. I was impressed and when it came to getting new batteries for the Miss Lil' Bitchi the deal had been sealed. Little did I know that during that ten year period Globelite had moved manufacturing from the US to Mexico and apparently the factory in Mexico cuts corners, as it were. Inferior assembly results in cells breaking whilst driving down bumpy logging roads. I have recently been quoted by "Edmonds Batteries" (in Burnaby) $95 for an American made 700 CCA battery that is 100% guaranteed for the first two years and prorated for the following five years, making the guarantee a total of seven years. That tells me that the battery isn't likely to break after three years like my Globelites have done.

Another point to consider is the relevant difference between Voltage & Amperes. Voltage is the driving force in which the power or electric charge is delivered with. Amperes is a measurement of the power of the electric charge. When measuring the voltage of your battery it may well be reading 12 to 14 Volts but it ain't gonna impregnate your starter with power if your battery is firing blanks, if you know wha' I mean, John.

Falco.

[thedjjack]

Hi folks. We figure it's a battery drain for sure. Steve at Rising Sun emailed us privately and told us to try shifting it through P, N and D a couple times before trying to start it. And it started first time! So, it's not the starter, it's the battery. But we took it for an hours run around town last night in the hopes that that would charge them up again. Gonna pop out for breakfast in a little bit here, and see if that made any difference.

So, in lieu of getting new batteries, do you suggest simply running her more often to keep things charged up?

If this is all you did to make it start it sounds like it is the safety switch on the transmission that only allows the starter to work if the transmission is in Park or Neutral.

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

Hi folks. We figure it's a battery drain for sure. Steve at Rising Sun emailed us privately and told us to try shifting it through P, N and D a couple times before trying to start it. And it started first time! So, it's not the starter, it's the battery. But we took it for an hours run around town last night in the hopes that that would charge them up again. Gonna pop out for breakfast in a little bit here, and see if that made any difference.

So, in lieu of getting new batteries, do you suggest simply running her more often to keep things charged up?

If this is all you did to make it start it sounds like it is the safety switch on the transmission that only allows the starter to work if the transmission is in Park or Neutral.

Right on, neutral safety switch.

[jaggedfish]

Huh... never even thought of the neutral safety switch ... and I have had the same problem in the distant past... doh! As soon as you mentioned moving the shifter I clued in. Your battery is obviously okay... just keep that in mind when it happens again... and it will, when you least expect it...

[KA43]

Hi,

I got same problem, same symptoms_ but in my case it was the starter solenoid.


cheers,
ka43

[Johnny&Ruby]

Well, she's been starting fine the past two days with no problems. The 'neutral safety switch' sounds like an interesting solution to the problem, but then, how come she starts most days in Park in any case?

[Spearo]

Neutral safety switches can wear out. It might work sometimes, but eventually it wont at all. You could bypass it (bad idea except emergency) or replace it.