norther ontario - cold/no start

[D3L1C4]

SOL - exceed delica that does not like winter! for the past two years (winter season) the van is not likely to start but with a lot of convincing from a jump it will start. a secondary battery was installed but not seemly to help in the start process. a new primer pump was installed in jan 2011 but it has not improved the chances of it starting. different batteries have be exchanged from one diesel vehicle to the van - no help. i get the one click on the turn of the key and wait for the second and wait another 30 sec to a minute before the final turn (advice from the import dealer) and most times it drains the batter without starting . when it does start i hear non stop clicking of the glow plugs - is that normal?? could there be something wrong with the alternator? new plugs were intalled last year from dealing with the same issues. i'm afraid the starter is going to die if this is the way to start the van in the winter. the summers are fine with no issues. very confused. any help/hope is greatly appreciated as i don't want to give up on my pride and joy.

[Spearo]

I'd say look at rebuilding or replacing your injectors. I went through the same thing; now it starts at -25C not plugged in if need be!
Your plug cycle sounds fine to me. Although I'd say that when you turn the plug on, you start the vehicle as soon as you hear that second click.

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

I'd say look at rebuilding or replacing your injectors. I went through the same thing; now it starts at -25C not plugged in if need be!
Your plug cycle sounds fine to me. Although I'd say that when you turn the plug on, you start the vehicle as soon as you hear that second click.

I agree.
You may need new 6.2V glow plugs as they were burned out too quickly.

Steven

[D3L1C4]

[hubby posting] ordered up delica plugs from milner in the UK last winter and no change, injectors though... haven't done anything there. van is at 69,000kms - is that early for injector replacement? oh, and the SECOND click - is that the glow cycle shutting off? what seems to happen is starvation - i guess plugged injectors could affect that... i prime the vehicle at the manual primer while starting under charge from the pajero, and crank - and it starts. other than that, cold + delica = garbage. if its 8-10 hours since it was last running, it starts easy, 12+ and it likely wont go. intend to have block heater, or webasto engine heater installed. either way, i'll look into injectors.

Steven - perhaps PM me what info you need to get me a quote on injectors, no-one out here does injector work. it's a 92 delica exceed P35W, 4d56t.

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

[hubby posting] ordered up delica plugs from milner in the UK last winter and no change, injectors though... haven't done anything there. van is at 69,000kms - is that early for injector replacement? oh, and the SECOND click - is that the glow cycle shutting off? what seems to happen is starvation - i guess plugged injectors could affect that... i prime the vehicle at the manual primer while starting under charge from the pajero, and crank - and it starts. other than that, cold + delica = garbage. if its 8-10 hours since it was last running, it starts easy, 12+ and it likely wont go. intend to have block heater, or webasto engine heater installed. either way, i'll look into injectors.

Steven - perhaps PM me what info you need to get me a quote on injectors, no-one out here does injector work. it's a 92 delica exceed P35W, 4d56t.

PM sent.
Steven

[nvanadm]

You should be starting the van on the SECOND "click" (that should happen 6-8 seconds after the first click), if you wait 30 seconds to 1 min later the glow plugs will once again be cold and won't do anything.
If your relay is constantly clicking after startup it's dead and killing your glow plugs.
First you will need a new relay. Call CVI or CCAuto for a rebuilt one.
Second you will probably need new glow plugs (order them at the same time).

Shouldn't have a problem after that.

I'm in London, ON and I do have a block heater installed but I HAVEN'T used it once this winter. Starts everytime no problem.

Good luck!
Be sure to ckeck out the Ontario events...there's a meet coming up this summer (around Father's Day)

[TardisDeli]

Hi there, so I wrote a huge long series of tests below for you. Then I re-read your posting. It is a quick easy solution, very common problem, NOT GLOW PLUGS.

It is the sensor for the water coolant temperature. Big clue, the multiple glow plug relay clicks when trying to start.

Just email to John at www.rockymountainimports.net or glen and graham at www.ccautos.com as they can bill your credit card and mail you via greyhound ground an OEM Mitsubishi replacement. If they dont have in stock, I can phone around town and find who has one for you. You just screw it in. Sits near front of engine, about the size of my girlish baby finger, with 2 sensor spade plugs at the end. Its job is to test the coolant temp during the glow plug cycle, it tells the glow plugs how cold the external temperature is, thus assumes how long the glow plug relay needs to heat the glow plugs. Simple.

Feel free to email me via PM with questions, happy to help troubleshoot (easier if both us on phones looking at engine, can talk you thru locating stuff and confirm diagnosis, the noise is very distinctive).

Cheers, Christine.

----- My original long email, before i properly read your posting -------------

Agree with NVanAdm, do NOT wait after the click. Trust NVanAdm (translate his name to North Vancouver Adam) used to live here, is an experienced and super nice delica owner, we were sad when he moved to Ontario.

Not sure what all you've tried, so I start from scratch here. I have talked many new owners thru this process at our local meets, so my comments are based on lots of experience.

TEST: START PROCEDURE: Just to confirm step by step, for L300, turn off all other electronics to keep drain on battery off, and also so you can hear your delica talking to you (no radio, no heater fan, no headlights). Do not touch fuel pedal or throttle (iF your engine idles too low when warm, ie when you came home last night, then leave the throttle set to a nice idle based on warm engine). Gear in park or neutral (of course, you are certain this starting problem is not related to the Neutral Safety Switch which prevents starting unless all gears are safe, but this NSS does go haywire if you accidentally cut the wire for it).

Turn the key to accesory, within 7 to 9 seconds, hear the click behind your butt, immediately turn the starter key.
(If I wait more that a few seconds after that second click I can not start, even in warm vancouver weather). Waiting too long to start the engine is a common problem when people install remote car starters, as they default to 15 seconds start time.

Even if you don't hear the second click, ie the relay mother board is bad, still turn key to start within 7 seconds.

Do you hear the second click. If not, it is possible to remove the mother board from behind your butt (I think Laura Marsgal42 posted a photo and instructions about 2 or 3 years ago). Take it to a little old man who repairs TVs and he can look at the board, often just a resistor needs to be replaced and soldered on.

If it is very cold, you can do the double click to warm. This means turn the key to accessory, wait for the second click. Immediately turn the key to off. Now turn the key to accesory again and wait for the double click behind your butt; this second set will take only 3 to 5 seconds instead of the usual 7 to 9. Immediately turn the starter key. It is possible to do this 3 or 4 times, but it is hard on the injector ends. If they over-overheat, can break off, fall into engine, ooOps).

TEST: Does it run well once it is warm? If yes, continue reading the next tests below.
If no, look at fuel injector pump, the rubber seals inside die with age (you will have lotsa black smoke on start and uphills); or look for clogged fuel lines (will hesitate on uphills); or change the air filter (BIG PROBLEM, so try starting without air filter on; major cause of rough running when engine warm and going uphill); do you have fuel leaks (ie oily patch under the IP or filter, if so replace any o-rings and fittings (this affects air fuel mix, if the fuel has dripped down overnight, then you need to turn the key to accesory a couple times to get the fuel pumped back up). Can you park overnight (or for at least 8 hours somewhere toasty warm just to see if problems continue).

TEST: do you get the morse code clicks? This means that you hear multiple clicks behind your butt, ie 5 or 6 quick clicks, or many more clicks lasting up to a minute or so. Or while you are first driving getting multiple clicks. Solution: the sensor for water coolant temp is dead. You will never get a good start until the coolant water is about 50 degrees F or so, not sure what the exact temp is (but if the weathr is warmish then the coolant is warmish). It is easy to replace this, but is a genuine Mitsu part, about 25 dollars. TESTING: will it start when its been overnight in a warm garage? A work around test might be to drain your coolant, take indoors and heat it up, then reinstall into radiator (I guess it would need to be hot enuf that the cold metal doesnt cool it too much). I know it seems silly, but this coolant sensor is the major cause of non starts in winter if everything is working ok, ie if it runs fine once it is warm, then look into this.

TEST: maybe fuel is not winterized OK, or adding WVO Waste Veg oil or anything that is settling overnight into layers (those layers clog the fuel system). Drain a liter of fuel, put in glass jar, sit beside van overnight, has it got layers. Layers are bad, think of it as a solid layer of a soap bar (same ingredients) in the fuel lines.

TEST: park uphill? My L300 hates to start when parked uphill in cold weather (probably something to do with where the fuel pick up is), so park level or face downhill.

TEST: does each of the 4 glowplugs work? AT exactly sthe same voltage? often just one gets burnt out, or the tip burns off (imagine the end of a cigarette ash falling off). They must all have the same voltage, which is why all 4 must be replaced at the same time as the resistance varies with old age. They can be removed and tested with 12 v battery current and alligator clips (dont try this unless you really know what you're doing) within 2 or 3 couple seconds should see end glowing red like a hot cigarette at night. What writing is on the glowplugs (voltage, brand, colour). Only genuine OEM ones work consistently well, just not worth risking non-oem.

TEST: Did it ever work well in winter with the set of glow plugs you have? This is an important question. If you have a set with the wrong voltage (which does happen, mechanics can make mistakes) then this is an important clue.

TEST: Battery good? It is amazing the difference when using a good starting battery vs a deep cycle battery. I run a single 33 series starting battery, not 2 of the smaller 24 series (the better batteries have thicker metal plates etc so more oomph). A lesser battery will eventually start the van but that is because the multiple start attempts have also prewarmed the glow plugs which prewarmed the diesel, and also pumped more fuel up from the tank, and also maybe moved some of the coolant around to start it warming, etc etc, so it disquises the fault. Any chance that something is draining the battery overnight (stereos take a bit of power to memorize your station presets, as do things like gps). You mention using the Pajero battery helps. So I wonder about rusty battery cable connections. Also tighten your Battery cables, honestly about 25 percent of starting problems are loose cables. Clean / roughen the battery terminal, and inside the connectors before reinstalling. The pajero battery helping the start seems to be a major clue you should follow up. Get a load tester on your battery (as well as the pajero for curiousity), is the paj also a diesel?

Let me know, PM me with Questions.

Cheers, Christine.

[Spearo]

That's a great post Christine. Should be stickied somewhere here!

[Mbryant]

Thank you for the excellent trouble shooting guide. I am narrowing in on why I have difficulty starting my van in when it gets below freezing.

TEST: do you get the morse code clicks? This means that you hear multiple clicks behind your butt, ie 5 or 6 quick clicks, or many more clicks lasting up to a minute or so.

A question of clarification are any "morse codes" clicks indicative of a dead coolant sensor?

Thanks

[nishby]

Once you've solved the main problem, some good insurance for winter is 5-40 oil, good quality fuel, and an oil pan heater. A full block heater is overkill.

Shane.

[TardisDeli]

Hi MBryant, to answer yr question, the only usual morse clicks is the single click to heat the glow plugs and then the single click to turn them off. If you get multiple clicks then it is unusual, and certainly if you get more than 3 clicks in a row then you need to have a serious converstion with yourself hhmmmm well its cold today, but if I ignore this problem and hope that global warming starts really quickly then I wont have to deal with this problem. Those people who just ignore the clicks now, then during the warm summer weather they forget about it, then come autumn you see heaps of sad postings here asking why. Cheers, cHristine.

[Mbryant]

Thank you, now I know that I need to change my coolant sensor!