Problems starting in the morning or when cold ? Adjustment

[pajerry]

Nevermind, Sorted it out.

[Rural]

So my L400's cold start problems seem to be resolved. It's funny, but now I see that the pattern has been more cold and wet morning starts.

The short story is that I took it in to a local diesel mechanic, he checked the glow plugs, found that three plugs didn't glow, he ordered new plugs and an injector pump shaft seal (just in case), waited three weeks for the parts to arrive, replaced the glow plugs, and gave me the vehicle back last night. This morning, I nervously went out to start the van on this cool and dewy morning. Started beautifully, barely a hint of smoke at all.

The weird thing to me is how the problem got so much worse over the first couple of weeks that I had the vehicle. My guess is that it was the dropping temperatures combined with the ample moisture we've had. It's also possible that more of the glow plugs were dying as time went on.

Other details: I'm a bit nervous that my mechanic might have been involved in the long wait for parts. I know that they were ordered from Rocky Mountain Imports. The story is that Canada Post lost the first shipment. So far that story has checked out. The other thing that makes me nervous is that the mechanic did some damage when moving the intercooler aside. Before the intercooler can be moved clear, there are some wires that have to be unclipped from the frame. He didn't unclip them and managed to break the clip that holds them in place and yank on the windshield wiper wires as well. It was bad enough that the windshield wipers would fail intermittently. I just reseated the wiper connection and tie-wrapped the wires out of the way, but this kind of thing makes me nervous. I'll be double-checking his reputation before he does any more work for me.

I was also a bit surprised that the glow plugs weren't checked/replaced by Amazing Auto Imports. Of course, I don't know that the glow plugs weren't working when Mardy had the vehicle. The weather had been nice enough that it's doubtful that the van would have got a chance to be started truly cold. Also, Mardy never said that he had checked/replaced them, and I'm sure that if I brought the van to him, he would. So I can't be genuinely negative.

Still, if anybody is doing like me, and buying a van, then driving home several hours away from the dealer, it's probably worth asking about the glow-plugs.

UPDATE: The problem returned a couple of days later when temperatures fell. I found that if I plugged in the block heater for an hour, it would start easily enough, but as temperatures continue to fall, this is becoming less effective. Checked the voltage on the bus-bar and it gets 12V when it should. Not sure about the plugs themselves. The bus-bar makes it hard to check individual plugs, so I'm replacing it this weekend. Talked to Mardy and he had no problems sending me a set of glow-plugs. I'm really looking forward to having this fixed.

[Rural]

So I got Mardy involved and he sent me a new set of glow-plugs. I replaced them and things were better. My van consistently starts to -25C without using the block heater. (I use the block heater if I can below about -15C.)

Mardy also shared that they have been having a lot of problems with L400s blowing out glow-plugs. The problem is that the engine doesn't warm up enough at idle for the ECM to turn off the plugs in a reasonable amount of time. After a while, the glow-plugs burn out. In my case, my mechanic replaced the glow plugs (with not so good ones), but after only a couple of cold starts they were burnt out. Mardy's solution is to let the engine idle for a minute to get the oil spread around, then to run it at 1500RPM for a minute, then 2000RPM until the relay clicks off. (I may not have these instructions quite right. If your van comes alive and eats you children, please don't blame me or Mardy.) So far, this solution has worked well for me. Generally, I don't have to ramp up to 2000 RPM at all.

But my L400 still puts out huge amounts of exhaust smoke (black for about 15 seconds, then white). After the above procedure, the exhaust is getting clear, but it doesn't completely clear until the engine is good and warm. I know that, when I was replacing the glow plugs, I noticed that the front-most cylinder had produced a lot more soot, going a fair ways up the threads of the plug, than the others. Maybe that was just because it wasn't properly tightened.

It seems like adjusting the cold idle up to 1100 RPM might be a good safety measure for those with spouses that can't be trusted to properly execute a warm up procedure.

In any case, I'm thinking that the problem is the injection pump seal, but want to check everything else first. Other than the glow-plugs (replaced) and the wiring (replaced), any other suggestions? (Yes, I'm trying to delay/avoid another expensive bill from the mechanic.)

[DelicaMark]

Hey! I was messing around with my cold start adjustment shown in the top photo on page 1 by Jesse, but I am wondering if the entire mechanism on mine is seized. I wasn't able to move it at all. I see how it is supposed to work.

Favour asking time. Could someone go out to their van (L400) and confirm whether you can move the cold start mechanism (shown in the picture at the top of page 1) by hand or not. It is a big spring so there is likely quite a bit of tension but mine really didn't seem to want to move.

Thanks in advance.

-Mark

[jessef]

I haven't been able to move it by hand (lever with large coil spring).

Maybe someone else can chime in as well ?

[chris]

You can move it with a screwdriver. Slide a screwdriver in the oval/rectangular hole and continue through the round hole from the front (see the picture) and you can lever the spring forward. If you do it while running you can hear the difference retarding the timing makes. It may reduce knocking when cold. To adjust it you have to get at the bolt underneath, not the idle adjustment bolt.

Untitled picture.png (187.64 KiB) Viewed 5016 times

[DelicaMark]

Thanks Jesse and Chris. I was able to move things with the screw driver method, so I guess everything is freely moving. Not sure what to make of the differing opinions on how to adjust this though. There are very obviously two adjustment screws on this.

I saw on the UK site that counter clockwise increase the rpms and clockwise decreases them. I tried to increase them by turning it one turn counter clockwise but nothing seemed to changed. Now I did this in the middle of the day (engine cold and had not been started today) with it being probably around 11 Celsius so I am not sure if it should be functioning at this temperature.

Chris have you actually adjusted this before by adjusting both screws?

-Mark

[chris]

Yes, I found it all confusing when I looked at it too and from this thread and particularly the posts from tttonyyy http://www.mdocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopi ... 67a0010216 I tried the screwdriver trick and it reduced knocking at start up so I did the adjustment. But when you adjust the bottom adjuster it also changes your cold idle so you may have to follow up with an adjustment of the other top (idle) adjuster. If I remember right I think it's easier to adjust the bottom adjustment when you lever the spring forward with the screwdriver. If you don't have knocking but your idle is off then just adjust the top one. Before you do anything remember where the settings are now in case your problem isn't related to the cold start device.

But aside from all that, when the engine is cold you should see the vertical arm pushing on the arm that controls idle and when the engine is warm there should be a gap between the two.

[DelicaMark]

I just finished fooling with this adjustment and got it to be where I wanted. Some helpful tips:

1. Counter Clockwise turns on the top screw will increase the revs (remember to crack the lock nut)
2. I eye balled where the throttle should be when the cold start was engaged to give me the idle level that I wanted. Then I held the throttle in that approximate location with one hand and turned the top screw counter clockwise until the gap was gone with the other hand. (I did the adjustment with the engine turned off)
3. I only adjusted the top screw and increased the revs by about 150 rpm.
4. I was able to do all of this without taking the intercooler off or anything else. It is tight and I had to do most of the adjusting blind, but it very doable without removing anything.

-Mark

[psilosin]

Some thread necromancy but this does seem like the best spot rather than start a new thread.

So my L400 seems to have a hard time starting when temps are below 5oC. It belches out a nice cloud of white and black smoke for a few seconds and can leave a black sooty spray pattern on the ground. However when temps get below 0oC it takes upwards of 30 seconds of cranking, multiple glow cyclings and more cranking to get started. All the while Huge amounts of white smoke are pouring out while cranking like i am doing 5 seafoam sessions at once.

- I just replaced the glow plugs with a brand new set. No change.
- The glow wiring and bus bar was replaced at Amazing Auto. Wire looks beefy and the bus bar is solid copper so I wouldn't think these are an issue.
- Once started it runs fine, no hesitation so dought the ip seal would be the issue. Mardy was supposed to have changed that so I double-dought it is an issue as I can't imagine that going bad in 8 months (although I guess Cregans did...).
- If plugged into block heater it starts fine with just a little puff.

Alas I cant plug in at work or at the ski hill and not really keen on being stranded at work (the horror...the horror) so lets get this figured out. What is next to check?

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

Some thread necromancy but this does seem like the best spot rather than start a new thread.

So my L400 seems to have a hard time starting when temps are below 5oC. It belches out a nice cloud of white and black smoke for a few seconds and can leave a black sooty spray pattern on the ground. However when temps get below 0oC it takes upwards of 30 seconds of cranking, multiple glow cyclings and more cranking to get started. All the while Huge amounts of white smoke are pouring out while cranking like i am doing 5 seafoam sessions at once.

- I just replaced the glow plugs with a brand new set. No change.
- The glow wiring and bus bar was replaced at Amazing Auto. Wire looks beefy and the bus bar is solid copper so I wouldn't think these are an issue.
- Once started it runs fine, no hesitation so dought the ip seal would be the issue. What is next to check?

I would say to check glow plug relay and then go to IP main seal.
Start your delica with direct jump from battery to the glow plugs.
If starting at once without hesitating, you have a faulty ECU or glow plug relay ( IP main seal is okay ).
If starting with lots of hesitating after cranking , you may have a IP main seal issue/relay problem.

Recently we have had faulty glow plug replays that result in hard starting in the morning.

Steven

[FalcoColumbarius]

What about the battery amperage? Cold slays batteries.

[CREGAN]

Just to check in and compare with Psilosin, I had some rough first starts. There was a lot of smoke and bucking of the van (shaking my parking pole really bad!) . I have done the long list of things including: Replaced glow plugs - seems to help a bit. Blanked the EGR - also seemed to help a bit but never really got rid of the problem. Replaced the TPS - still no real change as it contiunues to hesitate when accelerating. My van is also leaving a sweet carbon, black spot on the driveway whenever I start it up and warm it up. I think the issue is pump seal related. I am dripping out diesel fuel when I start up and drive it, my consumption is 16L per 100km, and it hesitates so bad when accelerating. Starting it is OK, but with the pump resealed I am hoping it gets rid of these problems. I beleive mine is having main seal failure problems. I am leaving at 5am tomorrow to start the long journey to Amazing Autos to get the pump looked after. 1200km and about 12-13 hours. I really hope I make it there! And if I do, it is sure gonna be a mess. Here are some pics of what is going on right now:

[psilosin]

What about the battery amperage? Cold slays batteries.

Pretty sure batteries are good. Both new with purchase (march2011) and they can crank till the cows come home.

I would say to check glow plug relay and then go to IP main seal.
Start your delica with direct jump from battery to the glow plugs.
If starting at once without hesitating, you have a faulty ECU or glow plug relay ( IP main seal is okay ).
If starting with lots of hesitating after cranking , you may have a IP main seal issue/relay problem.

Recently we have had faulty glow plug replays that result in hard starting in the morning.

When it does start it runs fine within seconds, just doesn't want to start, so I think I am ok on the IP seal (fingers crossed).

By direct jump from batteries to glowplug I guess that would mean having a second person do the jumper for ~6 seconds, then remove, and then I try and start?

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

I would say to check glow plug relay and then go to IP main seal.
Start your delica with direct jump from battery to the glow plugs.
If starting at once without hesitating, you have a faulty ECU or glow plug relay ( IP main seal is okay ).
If starting with lots of hesitating after cranking , you may have a IP main seal issue/relay problem.

Recently we have had faulty glow plug replays that result in hard starting in the morning.

By direct jump from batteries to glowplug I guess that would mean having a second person do the jumper for ~6 seconds, then remove, and then I try and start?

You need a helper to crank over when using this method.
It looks like you have a manual glow plug switch. it will be effective if you have a faulty ECU or glow plug relay.
Be careful for overheating.

Steven