Court case tomorrow re Delica lights in Manitoba

[thedjjack]

I think there is a difference then other people breaking the law does not make it legal (the example speeding).

In this case you have new car dealers sealing illegal cars that are sold as highway vehicles.

I looked up the regulations and it says it must meet: DOT, SAE, or CVSSM (last one might be the wrong letters) standards.

Good luck.

[elbosque]

A government of BC CVSE Inspector made a very useful comment on IVOAC:

http://forum.ivoac.ca/showthread.php?p=37999#post37999

You should have taken the Federal Regulations in which allows the use of the PROPER Ecoded lights. I can't comment on your specific lights because they may not be compliant. Just because they are ecoded doesn't mean they are good to go.

Here is the Federal regs that allow Ecoded lamps;
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/acts-regulation ... -108.1.htm

Delica.ca members should make a habit of cross-posting serious legal and political on IVOAC so that we can have as many people as possible working on them.

[Manitoba deli]

That link on ivoac for the danielstern lighting is what we were needing. It explains how ECE relates to the E-coding. With this, Sue should be able to go to MPI and get her Delica back on the road.

Jason

[winnipeg sue]

Too bad we don't get to choose what regulations we're charged under. I was charged under Manitoba's Highway Traffic Act. Federal regulations set a standard, which can be augmented by provinces; Manitoba. Further, Section 88(1) of the Manitoba Highway Traffic Act, H60 says that if a police officer thinks your vehicle is unsafe, they can take it off the road and make you make the repairs they demand.

Other vehicles are having this problem in Manitoba; see:
http://forums.gtrcanada.com/legalese/46 ... e-wow.html

It's not a question, as suggested in the IVOAC, of MB not accepted E-code lights as equivalent. Manitoba police and MPI are not interested in that. They'r'e not willing to do more than see if they can find a DOT or SAE stamp on the lights of vehicles they don't like. And Manitoba law, as it stands, allows them to do this.

[westendah]

Does this Manitoban law-enforcement have any effect on vehicles driving *through* the province? Should I worry about driving my BC registered Delica through town because the cops are too eager to hand out tickets for lights that are no different than those in every MB and BMW? Manitoba ... *scratches head*

[William]

I would not be worried about that at all. If they do make a fuss, I would imagine the Manitoba tourism industry would be happy to hear about it

Does this Manitoban law-enforcement have any effect on vehicles driving *through* the province? Should I worry about driving my BC registered Delica through town because the cops are too eager to hand out tickets for lights that are no different than those in every MB and BMW? Manitoba ... *scratches head*

[BV1]

I havn't had any issue yet in my Delica here in MB, had it since Jan 2010.

Steve

[MardyDelica]

Hi,sue,
sorry to hear this, but there is still have hope for you over there.
pls check and do some search:
i found very interesting 2005-2009 smart car sold by mercedes locally only have E1 which is germany.
they dont have a DOT mark on it. check and see. they sold it all over Canada.
have this inspected by any local inspection facility guys and take this case to higher level , get a good lawyer and explaine.
they will be surprise for sure why no DOT. this is a big example on this.
traffic judge dont know about this unless a good lawyer with explaine to a higher court on this.
even i guess cop in manitoba dont know this.
see what will be the outcome. make sure take a photo and show to them about this smart car.
hope this will clear the issue to them as they need to be educated not just applying the north american mark but to apply other country with left hand drive that has e-mark code complying from a left hand drive.
main topic is to prove that dot and emark code with same left hand drive country aiming is the same.
no need to be bias on this as it goes to the same beam pattern to the dot north american mark on the lense only.
just need to educated them i guess as most of this people i guess dont go to diff country before they implimented.
they need to do some research first before doing this.
hope this help
cheers;
Mardy

[Morganizer]

I used to live in Manitoba and Manitobans are much more sticklers for rules than in B.C. In traffic court, a judge will seemingly gag the accused by saying he/she must only address the section of the highway traffic act which he/she has been charged under. These leaves no room for discussion about circumstances.

Susan, did you enter a plea of "not guilty"? The judge would likely invoke this if that were the case.

An oddity of the Manitoba justice system is that you must enter a plea of "not guilty" in order to get a court date. Once you arrive in court, you are not required to plead "not guilty" and it is often to your advantage to plead "guilty with explanation". This plea means the court does not hear testimony from the crown (i.e. the officer who issued the summons does not contribute evidence) and the process continues more like a reasonable discussion between you and the judge. This does a lot to untie the judges hands, and give him/her leeway in the decision handed down.

What the judge wants to see is that:

1) you understand the law you have broken. With a little research, you can understand it better than anyone else in the court room.
2) you have taken it upon yourself to learn how you can avoid breaking the law in the future.
3) you understand that the court room is not a forum for airing grievances about the way the law is written, enforced, etc.

Susan, it sounds to me like you have a good case for Delicas being treated the same as BMWs and Smart Cars, but like the proceedings didn't unfold in such a way that you could present your case. Unfortunately, laws and the way they're enforced often don't change until a judge's decision in a particular court case prompts change. So your Delica may remain illegal in Manitoba until another Delica owner is charged and goes to court.