In tank heaters : to heat or not to heat

[delicat]

Around 7psi is around what you're looking for in your lift pump, hope this help...

[EnviroImports.com]

I'm curious about how many people are running the return line back to the wvo tank , no one has mentioned it yet , or I missed it, depending on the size of most of your tanks you don't have the ability to stop the hot wvo returning in a portion to the wvo tank creating warm or hot wvo , depending on the length of time you drive. Is any one using a biocide to stop the bacteria that grows in the oil over time when heated and cooled?

only a portion of your fuel from your IP goes into the cylinders, the rest gets sent back on a return line and its hot. has any one has issues with this?

Im running a very large wvo tank and it takes FOREVER to heat up, so Im going to pull it out and weld in a bung for a coolant heated prong to move things along a bit quicker, also a tank I just picked up from a salvage has a built in heater so I will cut the tank down, remove about a foot of tank and weld it back together so it will fit in my friends pick up truck, or keep it for me and give him the other one thats allready set up..
what to do , what to do....

[delicat]

I loop my return so your concern doesn't apply to me ie. Hot wvo going back to tank...

Kuan's explanation make a lot of sense to me.

Cheers

[after oil]

I'm curious about how many people are running the return line back to the wvo tank , no one has mentioned it yet , or I missed it, depending on the size of most of your tanks you don't have the ability to stop the hot wvo returning in a portion to the wvo tank creating warm or hot wvo , depending on the length of time you drive. Is any one using a biocide to stop the bacteria that grows in the oil over time when heated and cooled?

only a portion of your fuel from your IP goes into the cylinders, the rest gets sent back on a return line and its hot. has any one has issues with this?

Im running a very large wvo tank and it takes FOREVER to heat up, so Im going to pull it out and weld in a bung for a coolant heated prong to move things along a bit quicker, also a tank I just picked up from a salvage has a built in heater so I will cut the tank down, remove about a foot of tank and weld it back together so it will fit in my friends pick up truck, or keep it for me and give him the other one thats allready set up..
what to do , what to do....

i have been running return back to tank. i have also ruined 2 IP's. my latest install will have a looped return, but a three way ball valve for manual return to tank for air purge and trouble shooting.

[Kuan]

I will be looping my return - seems unproductive to send hot wvo all the way back to the tank.

[jessef]

Same. Looping to avoid hot veg in tank

[delicat]

On Mitsushi I had a 6 way valve sending oil back to the diesel tank when purging. With long drives it wasn't an issue but lots of shorter city rides meant more oil getting purged back to the diesel tank. Came winter time it became a bit of an issue with too high ratio of wvo/diesel. Not a huge deal though.

Nothing new below but just in case someone isn't sure how looping the return helps...
Now with the loop return I use two 3 way valves and during winter when switching back from wvo to diesel I take my time purging the wvo with the looped return (diesel pushes wvo back into engine until diesel has fully replaced wvo in fuel lines) and follow by returning diesel to tank (not looped) to get rid of any air in the lines. Total process is maybe 2km looping and 1km on diesel before shutting down for the night. Comes summer time I bypass the looping when purging and just switch straight back to diesel which purge the left over wvo into my diesel tank (the "E" doesn't come as quick this way...) And with warmer weather I only purge for maybe 1km.

But as I said earlier, even running insulated hot coolant lines along your wvo lines (towards the tank) and doing a 180 degree before the tank back to engine would help greatly with sluggish moving wvo. Always better to keep it simple.

Cheers,
Mr. D

[winelover]

I suppose I could weigh in on this, as I am in the process of converting mine to WVO as well. I have had two successful other conversions: 98 VW TDI NB, and a 92 cummins. The VW has done 125,000 miles on WVO, carefully tracked. I do all the maintenance, so keeping a list of what worked and what didn't was easy...

The VW started out living in a warm clime, and so no tank heating was used. I also used large(1/2") line for the fuel, and a smaller return. After seeing some very bad examples of HIH, I simply decided to forgo the line and tank heating. In practice, it seems utterly superfluous, as returning the hot veg to the tank would provide any heat needed. I ran the lines next to each other, and used pipe wrap to insulate. I cleaned the tank a month or so ago, and it was clean as a whistle, in contrast to the tank I got on craigslist from a disgruntled(and not mechanical!) experimenter of running WVO. His tank was covered with the 'chicken skin' of oxidized crap. It also has a copper heat coil built in, a bad idea, and his filtering setup was lame as well. The tank now lives in the back of a cummins, without the copper coil, and has stayed almost surgically clean. We moved this winter to a much colder clime, and had no issues there either. If it gets chilly add some diesel to the WVO tank(to thin it), which is not a bad idea anyway, the theory being that petro diesel inhibits oxidation. In practice, I have found this to be true as well. It does not take much diesel to elicit either effect, on the order of 5%(?), depending on temp., of course. Early on, I ran into condensation issues on my first WVO, but built a little dessicator out of some old packets of dessicant you get in shipping boxes, and a small fuel filter. Filled it up with the silica, and put in on the breather hose, worked perfect. I have not run a looped return on any of my rigs, nor will I use one on my van. Air can sometimes screw with you, and the returning heat, if the return line snuggles the supply, can be a good thing. I have heard it both ways, and keeping heat up front seems like a good thing, but if a person uses a good enough FPHE, say, a 30 plate, that won't be an issue. BTW, 30 plate FPHE is $89 on amazon. I tried several different valves, and had issues with every single electrical one I ever touched. Only mechanical 3 ways from now on. This also allows you to time the return switching, with a little observation in the beginning, so that you don't end up with WVO in the diesel tank. What else? I started using the small, clear FRAM fuel filters as prefilters, and eventually ended up using them as the last filter before the IP. After 70K miles, not a single issue, even running hot grease, and they're cheap, less than $3. Most of the other caveats center around two other aspects: not filtering well, and not getting it hot enough before the IP. I filter every time I move WVO between containers, and usually allow it to settle in a tote for months, as gravity does seem to be the best filter out there.
I am also a fan of having carefully wrapped injection line heaters...

Good luck Jesse!

[EnviroImports.com]

Good read.
I have a guy picking up my excess oil in victoria when I'm out of town and/or unable to pick it up. he is running a F350 2001 and does not run any second tank, he claims that he can run it all year with about 90% wvo and has only rebuilt the intank pump to put in viton seals , added a secondary pump to push it along but has come up with a different idea for his next mod of a long coiled aluminum line that goes into a extra large exhaust section, he is going from 4" to 6" for about 6 feet, his plan is to coil the tubing nice and tight having it enter the one end get slid through and then have both ends come out a hole in the stainless, exhaust so it would heat up as it goes towards the cabin, it will still be about 3feet from the turbo , I like the idea but my concern is the alum wearing against the stainless and the alum being the softer of the two wearing a hole and then leak.
but I like that he is thinking outside the box, he is a helicopter mechanic and is able to source all the parts, I am really looking forward to seeing how it all pans out in the end

what are some of the thoughts on here about this idea?

[winelover]

Well, not to knock the guy, but I wouldn't do that with my diesel. Two tanks, start on diesel, shut down on diesel...but if it works for him

I briefly fiddled with the exhaust heat idea as well, as have others, but it has two big disadvantages: it fluctuated wildly between too hot, as in WAY too hot, and not hot enough. I made a sliding stainless vane that I could control, but a minutes inattention, bad thing could, and did happen. Also, running a flammable fluid next to a sometimes hot exhaust...well, carry a fire extinguisher! After all the experiments, I returned back to using coolant, as did everyone else I know of who fooled with it. And why not? Stable tamp., in the range that works perfectly for what you want to use it for.

[Jordan]

Is he using anything to regulate the heat? My EGT can go up 600 degrees if I hit an incline. Exhaust doesn't offer the range of heat I would be comfortable with heating my fuel. I am very generous with my warm up and purge times, I have an aluminium coil in tank and hose on hose from the tank to the filter 'under the hood'. I haven't had any issues camping through the winter or problems running in cold, I am going to drop my tank soon and look for any warning signs, also HPT a sample of the oil that has been sitting in the tank through multiple heat cycles since march (I don't drive much).

[EnviroImports.com]

I asked about the EGT's also, but the probe is always right around the turbo and drops like a stone in water with in a few feet of the turbo. he hasent put it all together yet to find out a real life trial, Im more in favor of the coolant/oil plates , but I like to see other methods tried and see new ideas coming around. and its not a bad thing to make a friend who is a diesel turbine mechanic to bounce ideas off of. he really is a wealth of info

[jessef]

quite the soft metal to play with around the exhaust. I wouldn't try it. Might burp fire out the exhaust if something happens.

[DoubleMonk]

Wow this thread has become tanks or preheating oil in general, it seems. If you don't mind me going back to tanks. It's my understanding condensation happens in steel tanks anyway. Its a good practice to keep your petrol tanks filled to avoid condensation and oxidization of the steel walls to create rust, thus causing holes. It doesn't matter if the fuel is heated or not.

That's one of the reasons I use more gas line antifreeze come the spring freeze/thaw period. Lots of condensation collects and causes my system to choke.

I'm sure Dino Diesel isn't as bad for oxidization, because it penetrates steel keeping it lubricated. Though, this doesn't help for condensation, so it too is good practice to keep a full tank.

All my research on vegi oil is now a decade old.  Then, I always understood an in tank heater is a good thing. I yet have to research my new ideas, so maybe some of you can give me a yay or nay. 

I'm thinking of building my tanks of foam-core fiberglass (would like to build a carbon fiber vacuum table, but don't have my own shop yet, let alone a home). Foam is easy to shape and then easy to cover with fiberglass. Yes, I would loose volume, but I gain insulting value, thus eliminating chances of condensation.

Now I should research to find a resin that will hold up to vegi oil. I think hemp resin is out on this one.   

[macspud]

Hello everybody, I'm a newbie here. Interesting discussion. Your helicopter mechanic friend may be interested in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Kwaq46_ ... re=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Kwaq46_ ... re=channel

The Panacea Building Our Children A Future web site has some interesting ideas to get on thinking.

http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/researchanddevelopment.htm

Many old technology that has been proven to work in the past.
The GEET technology is interesting in it's self and worth looking into but I was thinking that he could modify the stainless part which is inserted into the exhaust in the video to his own needs adding to the two pipes to join them into a loop which he could run the fuel through, safer than aluminium I'd say.