Glow plug 'click'

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

To install a manual switch will be a last resort you can try.

Manual switch cannot be encouraged and it will not be economical in the short run anyway.

You may not encourage but many other places do.

Reasons:
1- simplicity
2- relying on switch instead of circuit board/caps that will fail (all electronics/caps do at some point in their lives)
3- ability to adjust timing cycle

Above are the reasons why many diesel owners around the world bypass their glowplug control units.

The two downsides/cons to a manual system:
1- you have to use your finger to switch on/off manually instead of the vehicle ECU doing it for you
2- if you leave it on for too long, you can burn out the glowplugs

Genuine glow plugs are very expensive as you claim they are only $110 for total 4 through trade secret.
Here are exact price I have known so far, and I never try to import them due to very limited demand and we have good glow plugs in stock.
http://www.japanoid.com/store/index.php ... cts_id=840

The OP said the glowplugs are good so no need to recycle the glowplug check/cost/your reasoning for importing them or not theories.


quote]

1. How come Mitsubishi or other manufacturers introduce self-controlled-system in their diesels?
If it fail, we can recover anyway. If you know the system, not a problem at all to recover.
We have invested lots of time and money to rebuild that system as it should be.

We already introduced our own system since 2009, got so many happy customers.
No complaints so far. In this month we have Dallas from Coquitlam ( 92 L300 ) and Rob from North Vancouver ( 92 L300 )who got installation service from my shop.

I don’t understand why you try to deny recovering self-controlled-glow-plug-system.
It’s not that expensive.

2. OP claimed he got original Mitsubishi glow plugs at $110 total as I was very suspicious of its genuinity .
I just showed members its real price through Japanoid website.
OP did not confirm his glow plugs are really original.
Anything wrong?

Steven

[jessef]

1. How come Mitsubishi or other manufacturers introduce self-controlled-system in their diesels?
If it fail, we can recover anyway. If you know the system, not a problem at all to recover.
We have invested lots of time and money to rebuild that system as it should be.

This is to bypass user interaction which is the basis of machinery/electronics when those concepts were invented : too do things so the human does not need to. If you missed it above, here it is (you quoted it as well). It is called automation.

1- you have to use your finger to switch on/off manually instead of the vehicle ECU doing it for you
2- if you leave it on for too long, you can burn out the glowplugs

I don’t understand why you try to deny recovering self-controlled-glow-plug-system.
It’s not that expensive.

I never said that. Nice try though. It may not be expensive from you to take a vehicle to a shop and have them remove, test, repair, install and test an ECU. Too many people, it is expensive.

OP claimed he got original Mitsubishi glow plugs at $110 total as I was very suspicious of its genuinity .
I just showed members its real price through Japanoid website.
OP did not confirm his glow plugs are really original.

Yes he did. And who are you to be 'suspicious' of a forum moderator? Ghastly comment.

The price is for a full set and they are genuine.

Anything wrong?

Steven

Yes. This :

We already introduced our own system since 2009, got so many happy customers.
No complaints so far. In this month we have Dallas from Coquitlam ( 92 L300 ) and Rob from North Vancouver ( 92 L300 )who got installation service from my shop.

That's lovely.

Nice sales pitch sugar coated with smiley's.

Not much has changed.

It's a shame a commercial dealer like yourself cannot keep your fingers out of the forum pot.

[legionnair]

I say run a switch to a relay then a heavy duty solenoid and finally to the bus bar run a little light off the solenoid to see when the bus bar has power and self time easy. If you lived in duncan I would happily help you wire it up

Good luck

Dustin

[nxski]

I gave in and had butch install a manual relay. He was able to confirm that there is power reaching the glow plugs. The set-up is battery-switch-relay-step down resistor-glow plugs. The system appears to be working so I will confirm once I can attempt a cold start. What Butch said is that because of this set-up I will have to hold the switch for anywhere between 5-15 seconds (depending on temperature). It is not like running the power directly to the busbar, which some have done, in that case you will only hold for 3-4 seconds and there is a much higher risk of burning out the glow plugs. Hopefully this will work...I'll keep you posted.
The downside to this is that my AutoStart will no longer work the way it's supposed to. Hopefully I can solve my ECU problem in the future but for now I'm happy with a manual set-up if it works properly.

Ps. Please no arguing or sales pitches in this thread or I will have to move it to the last word cafe.
Thanks

[nxski]

CONCLUSION:

The manual glow plug system works! 5 second isn't enough, 10 seconds worked but there was lots of smoke (I think because of the prior attempt). Hopefully with some trial and error I can get the starting to work perfectly.

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

CONCLUSION:

The manual glow plug system works! 5 second isn't enough, 10 seconds worked but there was lots of smoke (I think because of the prior attempt). Hopefully with some trial and error I can get the starting to work perfectly.

Like I said, manual system works.
Glow plugs start to burn out 7 seconds after you turn on switch.
If you are in cold area, 10 seconds are not enough to start and may try several times.
So we may replace glow plugs too often due to short life.

Smoke ( misfire ) is caused by bad timing ( we don't know the optimum temperature ), just keep rpm around 1100 for a while.

Steven

[nxski]

Yes, I still have to do some tests to figure out the appropriate timing. Is 7 seconds what your conclusion is for putting 12V straight to the bus bar? Mine is running through a step-down resistor so I was told 10-15 seconds is how long I should leave them on for. Are you saying it's better to hold the glow plugs on in say 3-5 second intervals rather than 1-10 second interval?

If they burn out quickly then so be it, it's not a huge investment and at that time I can switch to 12V and not have to run through the step-down resistor (faster starts).

Thanks

[FalcoColumbarius]

Miss Lil' Bitchi typically takes three seconds between the initial two clicks, four seconds on a particularly cold day (-25). How many amps are you running through your system?

Falco.

[jessef]

5 sec intervals is what our Pajero with the same engine 4D56T was setup for with manual push-button switch.

Aftermarket glow plugs, Hyundai, NGK, Chinese ones all burnt out quick. The only ones that have stood the test of time with the manual system are the oem Mitsu green tops.

Summer months, it would be a 5 sec hold then start
Winter months, it would be a 5 sec hold, off for 3 seconds, 5 sec hold and then start. Really cold below -10 I added a 3rd sequence to above.

Still going on the same Mitsu greentop glowplugs since 2007 and over 210,000km's between me and the 2nd owner.

Ignore the naysayers and contrary to what people may think, there's quite a few Pajero's out there with manual glow plug systems running fine for years. A few years ago we did a group buy from Japan for the green top OEM Mitsu plugs. Any other plug just does not compare, at least in our climate/winters.

[nxski]

5 sec intervals is what our Pajero with the same engine 4D56T was setup for with manual push-button switch.

Aftermarket glow plugs, Hyundai, NGK, Chinese ones all burnt out quick. The only ones that have stood the test of time with the manual system are the oem Mitsu green tops.

Summer months, it would be a 5 sec hold then start
Winter months, it would be a 5 sec hold, off for 3 seconds, 5 sec hold and then start. Really cold below -10 I added a 3rd sequence to above.

Still going on the same Mitsu greentop glowplugs since 2007 and over 210,000km's between me and the 2nd owner.

Ignore the naysayers and contrary to what people may think, there's quite a few Pajero's out there with manual glow plug systems running fine for years. A few years ago we did a group buy from Japan for the green top OEM Mitsu plugs. Any other plug just does not compare, at least in our climate/winters.

Thanks for the info! I'll attempt the 5 second interval approach next time. Is the vehicle you're referring to running with a 12V system or 6V and is it running straight from the battery to the busbar or through the 12V relay or 6V relay. From what I understand if I was to run it straight from the battery (I've heard that's what Felix did) I could get very quick easy starts but it puts more strain on the plugs, if I ran it through the 12V relay it would be quick starts and also fairly hard on the plugs and if I run it through the 6V relay / resistor it takes much longer for the plugs to warm up. When I initially attempted to start my vehicle on the manual system I did 3 intervals of 5 seconds and not only did it smoke a lot, it didn't even start. If you have it wired differently, or have a different voltage maybe I will have to do 7-10 second intervals instead of 5?

[legionnair]

After it fires wait the 5- 10 seconds and hit your manual switch again for 5 secs, this should give the precombustion chamber the heat it needs. The automatic system will cycle on and off when it is cold. I was curious about the clicking cycles and hooked up a volt meter to the bus bar and did a cold start. They will cycle while it is running

Give I a try

Dustin

[Rising Sun Auto Import]

Aftermarket glow plugs, Hyundai, NGK, Chinese ones all burnt out quick. The only ones that have stood the test of time with the manual system are the oem Mitsu green tops.

Ignore the naysayers and contrary to what people may think, there's quite a few Pajero's out there with manual glow plug systems running fine for years. A few years ago we did a group buy from Japan for the green top OEM Mitsu plugs. Any other plug just does not compare, at least in our climate/winters.

HKT ( sold in Vancouver ) and NGK copy are really bad and we have many testimonial here in forum.
How come CVI ( No.1 delica repair shop ) has used Hyundai 11V glow plugs in their service delicas?
Mitsubishi original glow plugs cost us over $460, whereas Hyundai costs you $160.
Also Hyundai and Mitsubishi have same OEM manufacturers in most part ( thus, same part numbers ) in diesel engine.


Here are related debates for your reference.

http://www.delica.ca/forum/glow-plugs-a ... glow+plugs
http://www.delica.ca/forum/poor-startin ... tml#p84093
http://www.delica.ca/forum/hkt-glow-plu ... glow+plugs
http://www.delica.ca/forum/what-s-the-s ... glow+plugs

Summer months, it would be a 5 sec hold then start
Winter months, it would be a 5 sec hold, off for 3 seconds, 5 sec hold and then start. Really cold below -10 I added a 3rd sequence to above.

Pls read carefully this article.
Like I said, manual control system works as primitive.
Just think why Mitsubishi got a new system after 1993,
It can be recommended to rebuild your system into 11V 'Self Regulating Glow Plug System' if your current system die.


Delica L300 (pre 1991) has 'Auto Glow Plug System' which uses 12V glow plugs with one relay.

Delica L300 (1991 - 1993) has 'Super Quick Glow Plug System' which was designed to shorten the glow plug warm up time. To shorten the duration, they used 6.2V glow plugs (on glow plug, it is written 6.2V [12V]) rather than 12V ones that they used earlier, with two relays (one for before-start and the other for after-start to prevent the burnout of glow plugs) and a dropping resistor. The main disadvantage of this system is that glow plugs were much easier to burn out because of the voltage. Hence, glow plugs needed to be replaced earlier than anticipated. Imagine the second relay is dead. That means your glow plugs will fail soon from overheating.

Delica L300 (post 1993) has 'Self Regulating Glow Plug System' which uses 11V glow plugs with one relay. If you understand what is written above, you will understand why Mitsubishi abandoned 6.2V glow plug system with two relays.

Delica L400 is the same as Delica L300 (post 1993) - 11V.

The key to understand the logic behind this is 'CURRENT' not the voltage. The range of current going through glow plugs on Delica L300 (1991 - 1993) is (80A to 40A). If you measure the current going through Hyundai glow plugs on the same model year, the range is (60A to 40A). This means, the glow plug warm up time for Hyundai 11V glow plugs is little slower than 6.2V ones.
However, the most important thing is that there is no overheating problem. Hyundai ones have 'built-in resistor' (variable resistance versus temperature) to prevent overheating.

Steven

[nxski]

Ok, so if we set the debate about glow plugs aside does anyone actually have the same set-up as me. What I gather from Stevens post is that my ECU would give 12v to the glow plugs for a couple seconds and then give 6v once it had fired. It sounds as though 6v is safe to hold on for quite a while which is why butch suggested I wire it this way despite the extra time it takes to start. The answer I'm looking for is very simple (ideal time to hold the glow plug switch) and would come from a person who has the EXACT same set-up as me. I'll try the tip about turning the glow plugs on for a bit after it's fired. Also, would it be a good idea to be holding the switch on while starting, or am I correct in letting it go just before starting?

[jessef]

our Paj was wired direct at 12V's.

5 sec intervals worked back in 2007 and still continue to work in 2011. Same greentop Mitsu plugs. The truck now resides in the interior with crisp winters and starts fine without the ECU.

[nxski]

our Paj was wired direct at 12V's.

5 sec intervals worked back in 2007 and still continue to work in 2011. Same greentop Mitsu plugs. The truck now resides in the interior with crisp winters and starts fine without the ECU.

That would be the reason why mine needs more time to start. Thanks, that clarifies why 5 second intervals don't work for me.