Underground parking and strata woes

[mycale2]

Long time since I have been on...i never went anywhere I just had trouble logging in...but anyways, i thought this silliness would be worth a post. I have owned my wonderful L400 Delica for over two years now. it's been a great truck for me and the family! We luckily have underground parking in the condo/strata building we live in, and even with our lifted Deli we JUST manage to fit her underground (it is such a tight fit that if you try to go in with the forward sunroof open, it doesn't go...). Anyways, I have been in Ontario on business for the last week or so, and the wife messaged me today with a message from our illustrious Strata president. He says that I have to idle/warm my truck outside because of the fumes in the underground parking are excessive. Now I just had an oil change and a once over up in Coombs. The truck starts really well! Initially there is 2-4 seconds of white smoke, sometimes hardly any, and she purrs like a kitten, even in the cold. Now, out of no where the Strata president is giving us grief for fumes in the basement...he obviously wasn't down there Pre-IP seal fix, which we did last winter. Personally I don't think he has any real recourse. Does he want me to idle it outside the door of the building so my fumes go directly in the end-unit's windows? Is there a MAX idle time limit rule that can seriously be enforced for all cars in the underground parking? If i idle my truck on the road, will the city of Esquimalt come and give me a ticket?? Shall i push the van outside in neutral and start it on the road?? Anyone else have this issue??

[dfnder]

Well sorry to hear about your Strata woes. There are always people who want to be on strata because they want to control other peoples lives, or make their own f%$#@!& up life better in their own minds. Haha been there. Anyway I would just have a look at the Strata Rules first and see if there is anything in the actual rules to support his/her beef, if not then no worries. Underground parking lots are designed to be able to handle vehicles with their engines running, you may want to point that out. On the other hand if you are warming your vehicle up for 10 minutes that is likely excessive. Just be warned that if you have strata after you then you may need to follow the rules that are in place.

If you are at the top of the lot maybe put the vehicle into nuetral and slowly cost down the lot while it warms up, if questioned you could say you were looking some guy who didn't look like a resident of the building. yada yada yada. Nothing worse than some power hungry person with a little bit of control... hope it works out alright.

cheers

[pajerry]

I had a complaint from an eco-nazi cyclist in my building (same scenario, but mine has zero smoke, just smells) that ended up going to the building owner. I made it sound like I did some research and politely requested that he first needs to bring the parking garage to code by installing adequate ventilation before I reconsider my vehicle starting habits. I haven't heard from them again. You pay for the spot, like you said, are you supposed to push it out every day? Comical really.

When someone on strata describes anything as 'excessive', weather it be noise, coming and going, it is totally subjective. I've heard of people getting complaints for 'excessive walking' in their suite causing some spastic downstairs to freak out all day. The lease agreement would need to state that it is not permitted to idle a diesel vehicle for more than 90 seconds for what they say to have any merit. Tell them not to worry since you're trading it for a chipped and blown superduty diesel!

Everyone has an agenda, good luck.

[drrod]

Like has been suggested......,read your strata bylaws and rules very carefully. If nothing in them states anything about idling time, etc then you are off the hook but keep in mind that rules and regulations can be changed quicker and easier than bylaws. Nothing stopping you from hanging out in your parkade with a video camera and seeing how many other people are "violating" to the same extent you are and then seeing if they are being treated the same. It is within your right to address the board at a meeting (following all of the notification criteria, etc). If I had to bet a beer, I would say that it is someone who has a prejudice against RHD's/JDM's and is using the strata as a tool to express it.


Rod

[tonydca]

Long time since I have been on...i never went anywhere I just had trouble logging in...but anyways, i thought this silliness would be worth a post. I have owned my wonderful L400 Delica for over two years now. it's been a great truck for me and the family! We luckily have underground parking in the condo/strata building we live in, and even with our lifted Deli we JUST manage to fit her underground (it is such a tight fit that if you try to go in with the forward sunroof open, it doesn't go...). Anyways, I have been in Ontario on business for the last week or so, and the wife messaged me today with a message from our illustrious Strata president. He says that I have to idle/warm my truck outside because of the fumes in the underground parking are excessive. Now I just had an oil change and a once over up in Coombs. The truck starts really well! Initially there is 2-4 seconds of white smoke, sometimes hardly any, and she purrs like a kitten, even in the cold. Now, out of no where the Strata president is giving us grief for fumes in the basement...he obviously wasn't down there Pre-IP seal fix, which we did last winter. Personally I don't think he has any real recourse. Does he want me to idle it outside the door of the building so my fumes go directly in the end-unit's windows? Is there a MAX idle time limit rule that can seriously be enforced for all cars in the underground parking? If i idle my truck on the road, will the city of Esquimalt come and give me a ticket?? Shall i push the van outside in neutral and start it on the road?? Anyone else have this issue??

Really Frosts my Flakes when some guy will wait until the husband is away on business before bringing something up with the wife-on-her-own. Classy.

As others have said, I'd politely call him on it, documented in a letter to Strata.

Before you do, tho', if you are worried about your cold starts making a lot of smoke, there are a couple of things to check out. I've had my L400 for two years too, and once I got my injectors clean, my battery up to snuff and skookum glowplugs, it starts first crank with barely a hint of black smoke - especially underground in Victoria at
+10degC.

Once you are happy with the starting, write the letter, and in it invite anyone who is interested to come on down and watch you fire 'er up. No-one will object after that, plus you can bring up the issue of modern Code requiring sensors and ventilation for carbon monoxide anyways.

I'm betting there is at least someone worse in your garage than you with regards to blowing blue or stinking up the air with an old carbureted engine. With a diesel it's perception - you can see the particulates where with gas you can't - you just smell it.


**PS**: Back to my first comment - did your President know you were going away on business? As former Strata president in our old building, here's a little tip: if you are not on Strata yourself, write the letter to your property management company, and request specifically that your property manager read it aloud at the next meeting - I believe they are obliged to, especially if there is no profanity in it.

At the bottom of the letter be sure to include a polite (important) phrase pointing out that "if the smoke issue had been brought up by someone a while back, you consider it unprofessional for the President to bring it up individually with your wife when you are out of town and unable to deal with the issue. You would have instead expected the courtesy of a polite request in writing, as you yourself are doing now".

That'll make his ears burn in front of the rest of Council...

[jessef]

I was in the same boat years ago with my Pajero and showed the strata council my air care sheet compared to a normal gas car and they awarded me the right to keep the Pajero in the underground lot even though I never let it idle down there.

If you're parking in an underground parking lot, just hop in, turn it on , glowplug click click and drive off.

There is no reason to idle diesels. In fact, idling your L400 when the engine is cold is not good for it in the long run.

It takes a good 5-10 mins of idling to get it to the similar temp as turning it on and driving right away for 2 mins.

I've never idled any of my diesels.

That should solve your problem right there.

Rule of thumb: don't idle your L400. Drive it and when coming close to home/parking, if your EGT's are too high, gear down and rev higher until the EGT's drop down so that you don't have to idle your rig when you park for the turbo to cool down.

[tonydca]

I agree that idling a diesel up to full temperature is not a good idea, since the oil pressure is low, as are the cylinder temperatures.

But I believe is it best to give the fluids a chance to at least start circulating before putting the engine under load when cold. Low oil pressure is better than no oil pressure, and the ramp out of my underground is fairly steep and long.

My startup routine has always been like this:

- Open driver's door.
- Silently thank Mistubishi engineers for conveniently placing key hole right in front of my face.
- While still standing outside, reach in with key. Turn. *click-click* VROOM.
- Climb in, shut door, adjust clothing, put on seatbelt, yell at children to get their seatbelts on, check mirrors, fix lipstic.. (oops - sorry 'bout that). At least 20 seconds have passed.
- Away we go!

[mycale2]

all good advice as usual. To be honest, I really don't idle my car anymore than anyone else. usually I will start the truck, buckle the kids in the back (all of two minutes to do that) then drive out. Good advice about not idling though. I always thought that you should idle the engine for a few minutes if you are outside for 12 hours but in general I don't really run it that much in the parking area of my building. I think the Strata president is a bit of a control freak, and not too bright. My run in's with him in the past have always left me with a funny taste in my mouth...I'll check the strata rules, and I know for a fact that there are a number of old clunkers down there that likely are "dirtier" than my beastie. It certainly does irk me that "el doucho" waits for me to not be around...I will wait and see if he bothers to bring it up with me again...i somehow doubt he will

[konadog]

Two minutes underground is way too much. Start and go. Go easy, but go. Start up as the last thing before you motor away

Maybe because a diesel smells different people notice it more. As long as your bus is in good working order and you don't idle excessively you're no better nor worse than any other vehicle.

Good luck

[pajerry]

Honestly, I could see starting the van then buckling the kids and loading the gear etc as maybe too long.

Even if he doesn't approach you again, write the letter to the strata, cover your arses, and then you don't have to worry about the peeping tom getting on your case for other trivial strata concerns. Things
like doing your laundry too late, or how you have more than two pieces of patio furniture and an unauthorized flower planter.

Good luck

[1994delicaman]

I have a remote starter and it has a timer, the timer is set for 15 minutes. The engine does not get up to operating temp just enough to start moving. Fortunately I live in a neighbourhood where people don't care about sound or smell. I do have a friend that has a toyota estima diesel that has the same issue as the OP. Is it ok to run estima diesel cold? My friend has been warned by the manager of the complex a few times already

[jessef]

you're hurting your engine if you are starting/idling for 15 mins. that's insane

do NOT idle your diesel motor = all 2.5/2.8 L300/L400's.

read above for the 'why'

[bassnailer]

you're hurting your engine if you are starting/idling for 15 mins. that's insane

do NOT idle your diesel motor = all 2.5/2.8 L300/L400's.

read above for the 'why'

This is contrary to what I have been told to do. Mind you, I'm not saying you're wrong; I'm a carpenter, not a mechanic. I just don't like hearing that I have been doing something wrong for a while. I always let my van warm up. Not much in the summer, at all. But if its -1, ish, and I haven't driven the van (L300) for a day or so, then I let it idle for about 3mins. There are big hills all around, so I thought that was the right thing to do. I have a turbo timer as well. It sounds rather needless now. So, what sort of "damage" can be done by over idling, and what would the remedy be? Clean the injectors?

[jessef]

Rule of thumb: don't idle your L400. Drive it and when coming close to home/parking, if your EGT's are too high, gear down and rev higher until the EGT's drop down so that you don't have to idle your rig when you park for the turbo to cool down.

As for letting it idle when you get it and start it while the engine is cold, that is a no-no.

The proper process is to let the glow plugs to do their work and get the chambers warm enough for the diesel to happily burn. This normally takes 10-40 seconds depending on the weather summer vs. winter.

Once the plugs have been warmed up completely, drive off. Idling at that point will not raise the engine temp until a good 10+mins compared to driving off and getting the engine temp to the same level in 2 mins.

There is quite a bit of literature in print/online as to the con's of idling a cold diesel engine after the glowplug cycle has finished.

Idling with a hot engine to allow it to cool down the EGT's is a must unless you can drive around for a few blocks or raise the idle up to 2,500-3k rpm. Shutting down a hot diesel engine without a proper cool down is a no-no as well.

Idling when hot to cool down - good
Idling when cold to warm up - not good

[1994delicaman]

Shutting down a hot diesel engine without a proper cool down is a no-no as well

I have a turbo timer that is set for one minute is that ok?