Delica Canada | Mitsubishi Van Club

You guys both bring very good points and isn't it nice to see a proper argument when no one has to be right!

Fexlboi has 1st hand experience with some regulations ongoing in Europe. We were talking about it a few months back and it's scary (both in a good and a bad way). I was shopping for a '75 Trooper in Germany, the guy was selling it because he was no longer alloyed to register it in the city limit where he lived...

Not being alloyed to wash your car in your driveway but only in designated shop. Why? Simply because we don't realize that every time we wash our car (pressure...) there's some oil/grease getting washed away and making it's way in the water system. Doesn't take much oil to contaminate 100 or 1000 of liters of water. I'm sure driving in the rain can have the same effect but they still banned it out there!

I might be guilty of posting this thread as driving those rigs "under" water there's gotta be a bunch of contamination, there's no way no oil/grease makes it into water. No vehicle is that clean!

We often hear/read on this exact forum people complaining of a slow leak (oil, fuel, coolant...). It's like we care more about our car then it's impact.

And it's too true that if you have the big money you can do what you want, sadly.

All to say I won't stop wheeling 'cause I love it, love to explore new areas and test my rig but I'll keep the above in mind...


Cheers!
David

here is my issue with government agencies telling me where i can wheel and where i can not.
we had 1600 km of well maintained trails just west of Calgary. for 25 years i wheeled those trails and left very little damage behind. i "rediscovered" trails that had been long forgotten but then some guys (i am going to guess 1% - 5% of the wheeling population) decided climbing insanely steep hills and negocitiating around tank traps was not their cup of tea, so they made tank traps, mud pits and 'new' trails through the skag fields. this area was designated by the province of alberta back in 1974 as a off road recreational area to be used by the people.
of course due to a minority of brain dead individuals with small knackers and huge trucks the government now had the ammunition to close the area. the was an effort to fight this but the very few meetings i attended turned into a finger pointing attack on each other. as i stood there i watched as the government represenitives smiled. the groups were accomplishing what the government couldn't, disunity. the government won hands down.
so for 2.5 decades of responsible wheeling (yah, yah, i am human and sometimes deviated from my own directions) i lost.
shortly there after the clear cutting started, thousands of acres of raping the land.

to take your point a step further, yes, a dripping vehicle can contaminate water. yes, power washing your vehicle can contaminate the water
but
those few drops of oil you drip has to filter through the dirt (unless you live in a concrete jungle) and that water below is not contaminated.
fear mongering: our water is disappearing. bogus.
you wash your car and the water eventually goes back into the ground water.
you drink to much and you pee and it goes back into the ground water.
you water your plants and gardens and the water goes back into the ground water. you boil a cup of tea and the steam will condense into water and eventually go back into the ground.
the governments want to put meters on the private wells in Canada and their propaganda is "fresh water is scarce". bogus. did you know that 95% (yep, you read it right, 95%) of Ontarios fresh water is in underground lakes and streams?
fear mongering is a tool the governments (and churches) love to use to control the people. look beyond the hype.

now lets take this one step further: the oil spill in the gulf.

in comparrison to that catastrophi how bad is it that your car drips a drop of oil or you power wash your cars?

of course common sense comes into play, you don't want a dripping car and if your car is sealed up properly then there will be no oil getting into the water system if you pressure wash your vehicle.

remember, i make money fixing other peoples leaking Cruisers.

if you are completely left or right on this matter is up to the individual. i am not here to judge you, your buddy, the Russians or the Europeans as to what you do. (just don't mess with my life as i have the right to do what i want as well)

me, i live in the country so IF my vehicles leak oil it gets filtered but i don't have leaking vehicles cause.... ... ... it is ugly to see.

delicat wrote:You guys both bring very good points and isn't it nice to see a proper argument when no one has to be right!

Fexlboi has 1st hand experience with some regulations ongoing in Europe. We were talking about it a few months back and it's scary (both in a good and a bad way). I was shopping for a '75 Trooper in Germany, the guy was selling it because he was no longer alloyed to register it in the city limit where he lived...

Not being alloyed to wash your car in your driveway but only in designated shop. Why? Simply because we don't realize that every time we wash our car (pressure...) there's some oil/grease getting washed away and making it's way in the water system. Doesn't take much oil to contaminate 100 or 1000 of liters of water. I'm sure driving in the rain can have the same effect but they still banned it out there!

I might be guilty of posting this thread as driving those rigs "under" water there's gotta be a bunch of contamination, there's no way no oil/grease makes it into water. No vehicle is that clean!

We often hear/read on this exact forum people complaining of a slow leak (oil, fuel, coolant...). It's like we care more about our car then it's impact.

And it's too true that if you have the big money you can do what you want, sadly.

All to say I won't stop wheeling 'cause I love it, love to explore new areas and test my rig but I'll keep the above in mind...


Cheers!
David

crushers wrote:here is my issue with government agencies telling me where i can wheel and where i can not.
we had 1600 km of well maintained trails just west of Calgary. for 25 years i wheeled those trails and left very little damage behind. i "rediscovered" trails that had been long forgotten but then some guys (i am going to guess 1% - 5% of the wheeling population) decided climbing insanely steep hills and negocitiating around tank traps was not their cup of tea, so they made tank traps, mud pits and 'new' trails through the skag fields. this area was designated by the province of alberta back in 1974 as a off road recreational area to be used by the people.
of course due to a minority of brain dead individuals with small knackers and huge trucks the government now had the ammunition to close the area. the was an effort to fight this but the very few meetings i attended turned into a finger pointing attack on each other. as i stood there i watched as the government represenitives smiled. the groups were accomplishing what the government couldn't, disunity. the government won hands down.
so for 2.5 decades of responsible wheeling (yah, yah, i am human and sometimes deviated from my own directions) i lost.
shortly there after the clear cutting started, thousands of acres of raping the land.

to take your point a step further, yes, a dripping vehicle can contaminate water. yes, power washing your vehicle can contaminate the water
but
those few drops of oil you drip has to filter through the dirt (unless you live in a concrete jungle) and that water below is not contaminated.
fear mongering: our water is disappearing. bogus.
you wash your car and the water eventually goes back into the ground water.
you drink to much and you pee and it goes back into the ground water.
you water your plants and gardens and the water goes back into the ground water. you boil a cup of tea and the steam will condense into water and eventually go back into the ground.
the governments want to put meters on the private wells in Canada and their propaganda is "fresh water is scarce". bogus. did you know that 95% (yep, you read it right, 95%) of Ontarios fresh water is in underground lakes and streams?
fear mongering is a tool the governments (and churches) love to use to control the people. look beyond the hype.

now lets take this one step further: the oil spill in the gulf.

in comparrison to that catastrophi how bad is it that your car drips a drop of oil or you power wash your cars?

of course common sense comes into play, you don't want a dripping car and if your car is sealed up properly then there will be no oil getting into the water system if you pressure wash your vehicle.

remember, i make money fixing other peoples leaking Cruisers.

if you are completely left or right on this matter is up to the individual. i am not here to judge you, your buddy, the Russians or the Europeans as to what you do. (just don't mess with my life as i have the right to do what i want as well)

me, i live in the country so IF my vehicles leak oil it gets filtered but i don't have leaking vehicles cause.... ... ... it is ugly to see.

Whoa, I concur.

Working with paint I deal quite a bit with the "New Church of the Environment". They tell you that lead is bad for the environment and as a "good Canadian" you should use the "new high tech low VOC paints" that cost at a premium. Lead paint job lasts 25 years, low VOC lasts two.... that means more paint is manufactured: More profit, more pollution ~ what is wrong with this picture? Lack of knowledge and lack of common sense.

The government oils dirt roads. It rains, water runs.

Falco.

crushers wrote: to take your point a step further, yes, a dripping vehicle can contaminate water. yes, power washing your vehicle can contaminate the water
but
those few drops of oil you drip has to filter through the dirt (unless you live in a concrete jungle) and that water below is not contaminated.
fear mongering: our water is disappearing. bogus.
you wash your car and the water eventually goes back into the ground water.
you drink to much and you pee and it goes back into the ground water.
you water your plants and gardens and the water goes back into the ground water. you boil a cup of tea and the steam will condense into water and eventually go back into the ground.

WRONG! Refined lubricants and other human made substances get NOT filtered from the soil in a way you can drink it again. I can not belive you compare drops of oil with watering your plants. Our water is not disappearing. Our fresh (drinkable) water IS.

crushers wrote:the governments want to put meters on the private wells in Canada and their propaganda is "fresh water is scarce". bogus.

Well done government! It will finally show Canadians that fresh water is as important and valuable as food and air and other stuff you need for life. Again Canada has a privilege to have (still) a lot of fresh water, but look at other countries. Fresh water is on shortage or contaminated water need to be processed to fresh water in a difficult process.

crushers wrote:did you know that 95% (yep, you read it right, 95%) of Ontarios fresh water is in underground lakes and streams?

Where would have you thought our fresh water comes from??? The majority of drinkable water on our planet is all underground or frozen to ice. Thats way we need to be very careful what we dump on the ground. It all goes back to our fresh water.

crushers wrote:now lets take this one step further: the oil spill in the gulf.
in comparrison to that catastrophi how bad is it that your car drips a drop of oil or you power wash your cars?

This is again pointing fingers at others. It all adds up. Every little step helps to improve the situation. If everyone things like you the drips are significant. Another example: Coffee take-out cups. If everyone thinks "Oh what is just my one cup per day if the landfill is already 1000 times bigger. This little cup doesn't really matter." WRONG. It does.

crushers wrote: of course common sense comes into play, you don't want a dripping car and if your car is sealed up properly then there will be no oil getting into the water system if you pressure wash your vehicle.

A car is ALWAYS contaminated with oil/grease and other harmful substances, doesn't matter how well you seal it. So every time you clean it something goes into the water ways.

FalcoColumbarius wrote:Working with paint I deal quite a bit with the "New Church of the Environment". They tell you that lead is bad for the environment and as a "good Canadian" you should use the "new high tech low VOC paints" that cost at a premium. Lead paint job lasts 25 years, low VOC lasts two.... that means more paint is manufactured: More profit, more pollution ~ what is wrong with this picture? Lack of knowledge and lack of common sense.

Just use the right paint for the right application. If you want to paint your bed frame you for sure don't want to use lead paint, if you paint your bumper you probably do. Following blind advertising is never a good thing.

did Greeny come back under a new name?
so: how does your car get contaminated with grease and oil if it doesn't come from inside?
of course: i will point fingers, you might make light of that mess but i won't.
fear mongering seems to be your specialty, you work for the government?

you have your OPINION and i have mine. it is obvious we will not agree on anything.
i conceed that: you are not right and i am not wrong...
but
don't wash your car or van otherwise you are a hyprocrite no matter how carefull you might be.

fexlboi wrote:
WRONG! Refined lubricants and other human made substances get NOT filtered from the soil in a way you can drink it again. I can not belive you compare drops of oil with watering your plants. Our water is not disappearing. Our fresh (drinkable) water IS.

This is again pointing fingers at others.

crushers wrote: of course common sense comes into play, you don't want a dripping car and if your car is sealed up properly then there will be no oil getting into the water system if you pressure wash your vehicle.

A car is ALWAYS contaminated with oil/grease and other harmful substances, doesn't matter how well you seal it. So every time you clean it something goes into the water ways.

crushers wrote:how does your car get contaminated with grease and oil if it doesn't come from inside?

So your cars are all 100% free of grease. Sure. lol

crushers wrote:you have your OPINION and i have mine. it is obvious we will not agree on anything.
i conceed that: you are not right and i am not wrong...

Any problems with a discussion?

crushers wrote:but don't wash your car or van otherwise you are a hyprocrite no matter how carefull you might be.

Wash your car at the right location where contaminated water gets collected. That's all.

To close this conversation: Lets wait another decade or two and even the last guy will get it.

That was a very interesting discussion, thanks guys! I'm sure readers will have picked/learned something out of it no matter which side they want to follow... I know I won't stop exploring our great outdoor with my truck but I'll also be conscientious about my impact. I can thank Fexlboi for that!

I started this post just for entertainment and it'd be great to conclude it with something beneficial...

Crushers, got some technical pointers on things we should do to our vehicles to make them more eco-friendly? Fixing a leak is obvious but anything we often overlook or could improve?

Cheers!

a) that is not answering a question so there is no basis for your statement.
b) a discussion when one wants to evade a statement is not a discussion, it is an attempt to prove your are right. irrelevant. even if all the cars in Canada dumped their oil in the back corner of their property would not equal:
the contamination from the millions of km of black top
the contamination from the multi millions of tar and gravel roofs, the ashphalt roofing, the tire wear on the roads.
the contamination from the oil spills in the oceans
c) you have no proof that synthetic oil does not get leached as it passes through the dirt filters above the ground water.
d) you have missed the massive influx of contaminates from farmers tiling the ground thus bypassing the dirt filters and flooding the water ways with poisons.
e) you ignore the contaminates from raping the land of trees and the soil being diverted to fresh water streams and lakes through no natural restriciton
f) you ignore the comtamination that comes from drilling the oil and gas wells.

so, if you want to worry about a couple drips of oil that is fine by me but to be joyous that our government is going to tax freshwater wells that they do not maintain plus they are infusing fresh water with poisons (clorine and floride) then you have lost all credibility with me.

let them tax the golf courses for the waste of pure drinkable water for the sake of entertainment before they go after hard working farmers. but what do you care? you live in a city or town (i will assume that or you would not be so happy to see another tax).

in the end, till you are walking naked, living in the bush under overhanging branches then your tree hugging, self-glorified claims to fame are just hypocritical, self-righteous blatherings.

(think about it, the clothes you were, the house you live in and the vehicle you drive took water to produce at one step or another)

fexlboi wrote:

crushers wrote:how does your car get contaminated with grease and oil if it doesn't come from inside?

So your cars are all 100% free of grease. Sure. lol

crushers wrote:you have your OPINION and i have mine. it is obvious we will not agree on anything.
i conceed that: you are not right and i am not wrong...

Any problems with a discussion?

crushers wrote:but don't wash your car or van otherwise you are a hyprocrite no matter how carefull you might be.

Wash your car at the right location where contaminated water gets collected. That's all.

To close this conversation: Lets wait another decade or two and even the last guy will get it.

Delicat,
for off roading and making our trucks more eco-friendly is not a simple set of mods, it is more a mindset.
of course, making sure all seals are in good condition is the most obvious. venting the diffs up to the frame with a sudden down turn will help prevent water from entering the diffs, t/case and if it is stopping water from entering then it also helps prevent oil from getting back out due to volumm concerns.
resist from stopping in the water, as you drive the metals heat up and expand slightly once you hit cold or cool water then the same materials shrink microscopicly and this can allow fluids to move past the seals plus the higher pressure of water from the outside can actually force contaminates inside. this leads to the need of changing out the diff and t/case fluids more often, not good for the enviroment and wasting our oil reserves.
next, build your truck or van to be able to transverse the terrain that you plan on tackling.
if you are heading back an old logging road then a set of mild mud tires and a winch will be all you probably need. if you encounter a soft spot then steady speed should be able to get you through, if not then don't be too proud to run the winch and give yourself a steady tug. minimal damage to the road and minimal mud being sloshed into the water table. plus if you dig a deep rut then the guy behind you will have to work that much harder to get through as well compounding the issue.
if you like exploring the outback on long forgotten sysmic roads and trails then lockers front and rear, aggressive mud tires, proper gearing and proper torque will be needed. as well as a proper winch, snatch block, extra cable is a must and SECURE tow points front a rear. when you encounter a creek or a skag field or mud trap then get out and survey the obstacle on foot first and pick a good route through OR AROUND the obstacle. with the properly set up rig then you can idle through without spinning a tire, with a poorly setup rig you will need to have momentum and you will be spinning your tires ripping up the earth. "no traction = no action" . in other words if you have no traction then you will be stuck.
what is the down side of having a heavy foot in the outdoors?
you are emitting excessive exhaust emissions through racing the engine
you are doing excessive, unneeded trail damage to the enviroment
you are doing damage to the vehicle when you go from no/limited traction to sudden traction (=equals replacement parts and more waste)
if you break something in the bush then there is a strong chance you will have fluids leaking out of your vehicle contaminating the trail. that is not the final part since there is a good chance that the vehicles behind you will drive through your mess and spread it further down the trail.

most important eco concern for me is not the contamination of the soil and waterways but the contamination of the wildlife.
on remote trails and the off shoot mud bogs, skag fields, meadows etc wildlife have their homes there. they feed, raise their young, enjoy the peace and security that comes with the outback, the very reason some of us head out their to enjoy ourselves. if you come blasting along the trail then you have a good chance of displacing these creatures that have as much if not MORE right to be there than us. if you head into a bog, a meadow, a stream then you are invading the home of those that live there. (how do you like it when they invade our home? you don't. so treat their homes with the same respect).
to me all living things have the right to exist (okay, sidders, black flies, horse flies and them nasty little no-see'ums have no rights) just as we do. accidents happen, a coon runs out on the road and you don't have decent time to do a SAFE avoidance manouver then ooops but you don't have to drive to the otherside of the road to TRY AND HIT him. get the idea?
we need to co-exist with nature. we enjoy it and to me there is nothing cooler than driving down some secluded trail in the middle of no where and seeing some deer, moose, wild horses, hawk, owl, snapper turtle etc in their own world.

in a nutshell,
maintain your vehicle properly
build it to properly do what you want to do
know the vehicle's limitations and don't be too proud to take a tug or pull out the winch
traverse the land with respect
respect the residents of the land you are crossing

helpful?
waste of cyberspace?

delicat wrote:That was a very interesting discussion, thanks guys! I'm sure readers will have picked/learned something out of it no matter which side they want to follow... I know I won't stop exploring our great outdoor with my truck but I'll also be conscientious about my impact. I can thank Fexlboi for that!

I started this post just for entertainment and it'd be great to conclude it with something beneficial...

Crushers, got some technical pointers on things we should do to our vehicles to make them more eco-friendly? Fixing a leak is obvious but anything we often overlook or could improve?

Cheers!

Thanks Crushers.

There is definitely something magical about just idling through bad terrain, and your 77 is probably the second best truck to do this... after mine!

Cheers,
D.