Alcohol-water injection for Turbo diesels Good cheap HP/TQ

[fexlboi]

Have there been any new developments?
I just read through the whole discussion on this toppic and the results seem inconclusive at this point. A bit of a cliff hanger.
My Delica's will be in my posession next week and I'm already thinking of modifications.

I played with all kind of different settings as well as all kind of different fluids and mixing ratios, but to be honest this system (or maybe alcohol injection in general) is not working (at least on a Delica). There is no noticeable more power, neither it cools down the exhaust temperature. Maybe it cleans the engine, maybe, but other than that, don't waste your time and money on it. As jfarsang there are probably better option to increase the power.

[christoph]

mine's already a five speed. And I was thinking more about the long term effect on the engine (less carbon build up) as well I'm told my year doesn't have a cooling system for the turbo so I was hoping this would sort of do the job. A decrease in fuel consumption would be nice to. I really am not interested in more torque.

[fexlboi]

...less carbon build up
...cooling system for the turbo
...decrease in fuel consumption would be nice to

Maybe the system helps to build up less carbon, but who knows none of the other "advantages" are working, so I would be not surprised this one doesn't it either.
As I said, EGT is not affected by this system.
You might have a decrease in fuel consumption, but the few litres you save you have to spend on Methanol. In general running this system gets pricey after a while if you want to use it all the time. We installed a switch to shut it off if we don't want it.

[christoph]

I was thinking just running water to keep the cost down. Since aparently just using water is supposed to boost the performance on it's own.

[fexlboi]

I was thinking just running water to keep the cost down. Since aparently just using water is supposed to boost the performance on it's own.

Sorry to disappoint you, but it is the same effect (no performance gain, neither cooling) with just running water. We tested every possible mixing ratio. Also pure water is not recommended for our settings/engines if you read on their forum.

[FalcoColumbarius]

Out of curiosity, have you tried adjusting the boost down toward eight PSI? I was talking with a mate who used to work on turbos and he was explaining to me that if the turbo spins to fast then it moves less air, that the optimum boost is eight PSI and if you wanted more boost then the answer was to use twin turbos, both at eight PSI. He qualified this information by telling me that he had only really worked on turbos with gasoline engines and not diesels. He also explained to me that HP (stored energy) was only really relevant to gasoline engines and not diesels. Diesels run at a much lower RPM but having more compression. What do you think of that?

Falco.

[fexlboi]

Falco, I started with around 8 - 9 psi and now it is up at around 11 -12 psi, but it shouldn't matter in this case, because the injection will go on at a custom set boost.

guamdoc, any chance to contact the other two Delica owners who ordered separate from us? We don't know who they are. Would be interesting what kind of experience they have with it.
You said you had many customers with a 4d56 engine. I'm wondering if they go up a steep hill with the injection switched off, but the boost is already high enough for the injection and then half the way up the hill they switch the injection on.
Does the EGT stay at the same temperature or even drops? Does they feel a noticeable "boost" in power? Any changes in RPM?
If so, what kind of mixture are they running? What nozzle size? Any other tricks we are missing?

[jessef]

To get a true HP increase and better mpg, propane injection is what you guys should be looking at.

Wayne has been doing this for years on JDM's with success.

I drove a friend's HDJ81 stock and then with propane injection switched on.

The difference is truly noticeable with a high increase in HP, cooler temps (EGT) and that particular rig was running 4-5 mpg better.

http://www.luxuryimports.ca/products/pr ... ection.php

What is Propane Injection?

Propane Injection is where Propane vapor is introduced into the intake of the diesel engine to help burn the wasted fuel. it acts like a catalyst with the diesel to help burn the fuel completely.

What are the advantages of Propane Injection?

Propane Injection (PI) helps to burn all the fuel thus you have a cleaner burning engine. a normal diesel engine only burns 75% of the fuel so there is a waste of fuel as well this is were most of the black smoke comes from, unburnt fuel. will this system get rid of all the black smoke? No. but it helps to reduce most of it. under full throttle you might still see a small amount of smoke. there are other factors that also come into play causing black smoke from a diesel. PI also drops the Exhaust Gas Temperatures by 50 F - 100 F. this also helps the longevity of the engine. PI also boosts the horse power of the engine by at least 25% but not at the risk of detrimental engine wear. the horse power increase is substantial making hill climbs a breeze and towing a reality and a pleasure. even around the city and on the highway you will notice a quieter more powerful engine. Because the engine runs cleaner you will also find a side benefit of a bit cleaner oil at oil changes. PI will also increase the fuel mileage of the engine by 1-3 mpg (or even more) depending on driving style.

Will Propane Injection hurt my engine?

No, as long as you leave the settings as they are at time of install. the PI injects 2 cfm of propane into the engine to help burn the unburned and wasted fuel. We are not trying to run the truck on Propane just introducing a very small quantity to help combustion.

How long does a tank of Propane last?

This depends on driving style. on the smaller 2.4L a green camping bottle should last 4 tanks of fuel. on the bigger 4L-4.2L a 20 lb bottle of propane should last 4 tanks of fuel.

How does this Propane Injection system compare to systems like that from Bully Dog and other manufacturers?

Variable Rate Propane Injection comes on smooth and is comfortable, effortless and safe. We get the kits designed to start injecting at 2 psi boost. this allows the engine to begin producing horse power and also allows the turbo to start spooling before the propane is injected. this makes for a very drivable unit. there is no sudden load introduced to the engine at any time so the load factor is minimized which will also give longer engine life.

Benefits of Propane Injection:

* Simplicity is the key to getting the performance you want out of your truck.
* Simple patent pending design means: No mixers, sensors, evaporators, or switches to hassle with or adjust.
* Easy installation and maintenance.
* Cleaner burning fuel.
* Better fuel economy.
* Increased torque and horsepower for towing

Applications:

* The Variable Rate Propane Injection Kit is the perfect addition for your turbo diesel engine to gain horsepower at an affordable price.
* The Variable Rate is boost pressure activated, injecting propane into the engine as the boost pressure of the engine increases producing a throttle control, that you will definitely feel behind the wheel.
* Safety features such as: Power switch inside the cab so driver has full control of turning the system on and off. Fuel lock off valve, stops the flow of propane unless the vehicle ignition and system is on.
* An adjustable orifice allows you to change flow rates from towing to performance effortlessly in minutes.
* Variable flow rate delivers smooth, steadily increasing power, proportionate to the boost pressure.

[39Ronin]

My 2 cents:

If you bother spending all the money on the propane system, and for the propane itself refill after refill (propane isn`t cheap anymore) you may as well enrich the fuel pump and just burn more diesel. I cranked my fuel set screw on my Town Ace back in the day and it was alot faster, it wasn`t as effiecient but it didn`t cost me anything to do it in the first place. So it may balance out in the end.

[Chewy]

Any injection system that uses an expendable source can be a pain. I agree with Neil with simply upping boost, upping fuel to match, and then intercooling. Cheaper, less hassle, and more reliable.

[39Ronin]

AS Chewy said, but even better WVO kit the Delica and crank the fuel delivery screw up on the pump! Burn as much free veggie as you can then you can get performance over economy and not really care.

[fexlboi]

Could you guys please open a new thread if you want to discuss alternatives to alcohol-water injection and not high-jacking this one. Otherwise it get's a little bit messy here
We are not going to install something different before we solve problems with the current set-up. So please back to topic.
guamdoc, if you are still following this thread, do you have something to add to our questions above?

[Chewy]

Sorry Felix, I know you've probably already done a fair amount of reading, but here's a link with a fair bit of info from subaru land where water/meth is commonplace:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=937176

[delicat]

Not much happening on this tread anymore, well not here anyway but...

But if you check the Philippines Delica site you'll be surprised (maybe not) to see that our old friend dvldoc has "borrowed" our installation pictures and posted them on that site!
http://delicaclubphils.proboards.com/in ... thread=953

It kinda bothered me to see that since he's failed to answer the last few questions (from fexlboi...) and never added along with the borrowed pictures that we never saw any gains from this mod. Instead he posted graphs showing hp gains on a similar vehicle.

Anyway, since I'm not the one to burn bridges and that who knows maybe it's all my fault if this thing doesn't work as proclaimed I'll leave it to this, and to my reply on the Philippines site.

Just sharing...

[shaun]

Update on what I have found with my system.Went on a trip through B.C. , Alberta ,Montana, Idahoe & Wash.Driving through Rodgers pass system was working,exhaust temp was just above 1000 F(all temp after turbo).When we got to Montana & Glacier park,1900 M up,ran out of washer fluid in tank.Lost lots of power & exhaust temp went up to 1400 F.Stopped & filled tank,power was back & temp dropped back to 1000F.I just got used to it working all the time,didn't realize the difference it made.I now changed the 2gph after turbo nozzle to a 3gph.More increase in power,but not a big change in exhaust temp.I then leaned out the injection pump.Still about the same power but dropped temp close to 100F.Half tank of fuel is about 330km,fuel light comes on close to 600km.One other thing that I noticed is that the after turbo nozzle clogs up with oil from the pcv line.You need to check your nozzles for clogging.I have a led bulb that cycles with the pump motor.If the light stays on,your out of fluid.If the light comes on than stays off,your nozzle is plugged.Then light should cycle on & off at a fast rate when working properly.