Alcohol-water injection for Turbo diesels Good cheap HP/TQ

[guamdoc]

Just wondering if anyone here is using it. Here are some of the results we had on a 1997 Mazda MPV in the Philippines we dyno tested. Lots of Delica there as well as spacegears and ton of turbo diesels in general. This might a mod you guys might want to try out.

Just something to think about.

Great results from 1500 to 3000rpm power and torque increases are great but the turbo does fall flat on it's face at around 3600rpms a pre-turbo nozzle would give you alot more gains in your top rpm range.

But look at the max gains

1500 rpms 14hp TQ 47LBS Max HP Gain 43% Max TQ gain 46%
2000 rpms 32hp TQ 84LBS Max HP Gain 63% Max TQ gain 65% HUGE!!
2500 rpms 17hp TQ 36LBS MAX HP Gain 20% Max TQ gain 21%
3000 rpms 10hp TQ 19LBS MAX HP Gain 10% Max TQ gain 11%

You will see around the same gains with just using -20F windshield washer fluid, Yeah thats right washer fluid, it's what 60% of alcohol injection customers use because it's cheap, pre mixed and easy to buy. -20F washerfluid is 40% methanol/60% distilled water with a tiny bit of dye that hurts nothing. Been running it in my personal vehicles for 4 years.

These vehicles have undersized turbos and the pre turbo injection signifiacatly helps them with the top end power Just compare the starex dyno. If he puts on a Pre turbo nozzle the power up to will be much greater. But once again we prove without doubt our system flat out makes power on turbo diesels. Nothing your going to buy for 15K installed is going to give you that kind of power period.

To give you a ideal how well the system is working when you just look at the gains on just water alone it's enough to be impressed.

1500rpms 6.3hp gain- 20% over stock / TQ 22lbs 22% over stock

2000rpms 18hp gain - 36% over stock / TQ 47lbs 36% over stock

2500rpms 12.5hp gain- 15% over stock/ TQ 26lbs 15% over stock

3000rpms 6.9hp gain- 7% over stock/ TQ 12lbs 7% over stock


Even just using water give you good gains and if you want more power just add some alcohol to the mix and you got it. There is simply no modification for the money that can do this and all without changing anything about your engine. Even on pure water you get marked improvements in acceleration and fuel economy as well as reduced emissions.








We also did a 2001 Starex van which is similar to the Spacegear.

The starex picked up 18% more HP and 23.5% more TQ with 50/50 Ethyl alcohol/water, could have made more on methanol but we only had 30% mix on hand.



Emission results.



Starex on the dyno, Notice no smoke with the alcohol on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wGcJ94wtQ0

[GREENME@U]

WOW thats cool. Wont water reck your motor? Have u gone out and realy tested it for a good 2 years or so?

[guamdoc]

Friend Alcohol injection has been around since the 1940's it's nothing new the US military use this on P51-Mustangs in WWII as well as the Germans to gain higher HP at altitudes on the supercharged planes. It's very common and in use all over the world. And no it cannot wreck your motor when properly installed. Buick grand nationals kicked of the craze again in the mid 80's and it's been booming ever since. Just do a search on the net, Alcohol injection is far spread, Especially in the turbo diesel world and high performance turbocharged and supercharged cars, It's how you get to run large amounts of boost without using race gas. And for diesels it keep the exhaust gas temp down and gives them a ton of power because methanol is fuel. Ever seen tractor pulls with the tractors running 60 to 90psi of boost, they all use alcohol/water injection so they don't blow the motors.

For the 4cly turbo diesel there is no modification that will get you more hp for less money and give you more benefits.

Basically this is what it does.
For those who are not aware of the benefits here it is in a nutshell.

• How does alcohol/water injection work?
By injecting a fine spray of alcohol/water into the inlet air stream of the engine, the charge air is dramatically cooled and the effective octane of the fuel is raised. Both help to eliminate detonation — the enemy of any engine, especially those using today's lower octane fuel under boost. For turbo diesel engine you will get a 100% fuel burn and on average pick up 20% to 30% more horse power over your RPM band. Turbocharged Gas engines will on average pick up 20% more horse power. You will notice immediate gains in performance. Your turbo will spool up faster, your top end will be noticeably improved and you will get no detonation.
What are the other benefits of alcohol injection?
1. Steam cleaned motor, alcohol injection will remove 95% of all carbon on the inside of your engine and keep it that way dramatic increase in engine life. There is no fuel additive on the market that can clean your engine as well. This means less maintaince , were talking almost zero carbon build up on plugs combustion chambers and valves!
2. Eliminate black smoke in turbo diesels by 95% under load.
3. Reduce emissions making a marked improvement in air quality.
4. More Kilometers per liter, more power at less throttle equal more liters per Kilometer.
5. Zero detonation
6. Intake air temperature reductions of up to 37C drop. You touch your intake it will be ice cold even on the hottest day after the system is on.
7. Reduction of Exhaust gas Temperatures as much as 93C, which increases horsepower and eliminates detonation.
This is the only performance modification that pays for itself. Plus a fulltime forum for questions and technical support.
Common questions What kind of fluid do I use?
1. Water/Methanol , no greater than 50/50 in a turbo diesel motor. Easy source for this is simple, good old windshield washer fluid -6C or +20F mix. It contains methanol and the water is distilled and is ready available.
2. Denatured alcohol
3. Isopropyl alcohol or Ethyl Alcohol also work just fine. also know as
Rubbing alcohol.
4. Methanol 118 octane, Denatured Alcohol 116 octane, Isopropyl 106 octane.

What kind of power increase will I see
With just water you will see up to 15% more HP add up to 20% alcohol of your choosing and your gains will be up to 30+% all with no down sides. You can gain even more running 50/50 mix as you can see by the dyno the MPV picked up 60% more power in the lower rpm range, Imagine towing with that installed. Unlike all the scam devices for sales in the papers this is proven technology that works and is in use on vehicles all over the world with proven results.

The system pays for itself in performance, fuel economy and a engine that is almost 95% carbon free. There is no fuel additive on the market that can keep an internal combustion engine this clean.

Like I said it's nothing new, Being that I am familiar with these vehicles since I travel to the Philippines and have been to Japan on deployment I figured i would see if your club was interested in them. Turbo diesels love the kits and if your adding weight with parts, towing ect this is your cure for extra power and it's as simple as filling up your tank with winter blend washer fluid. Not a bad deal.

We have alot of Aussies that run these in there spacegears and Delicas they love the extra power. If it's got a turbo or supercharger on it it's a good bet we have a kit on it.

[jessef]

We have alot of Aussies that run these in there spacegears and Delicas

Can you post some installs & pics of your system in these Delica's and spacegears ?

Jesse

[guamdoc]

Here you go

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/forum/ ... nstall.pdf

Darrenmidd
Delica club
Quote:
G'day,
Here is my test report on the water/methanol system.

INITIAL COMMENTS
Overall the system is very good, it it easy to install [there should be a 'how to' in the downloads section very soon] and returns good power.

Initially you notice the power comes on much sooner and faster as well as increasing the power.

I still haven't got everything exactly how I want it because I'm a busy boy this time of the year and would have preferred waiting a few more days, however, I'm getting Pm's and emails so here goes.

Unmodified the power came on in a lazy fashion.
Modified it came very quickly, and much more of it.

I would estimate that the increase in overall power would be somewhere between 10-20% [depending on boost and injector pressure]. The most significant improvement is that it comes on so much quicker. It was also running leaner [modified] than previously, the Air to Fuel ration also improved [obviously].

SUMMARY
INSTALLATION: EASY/MODERATE
You really need a day to complete it, it is not difficult, but I reckon at least 6 hours should be set aside, I have uploaded a pdf and that should help.

EFFECTIVENESS: VERY GOOD/EXCELLENT
I love the improved zippiness. My wife commented that it was a big improvement. I'm not sure on the cost but around $300-400 you are getting excellent bang for buck. I would highly recommended the system, although I reckon the progressive controller in the car would also be

[Jester]

I got 2 cmments to this:
1.if something seems too good to be true it usually is

and
2.greatly increased horsepower with no other mods to the engine equals very short lifespan expectancy for the engine, transmission and rest of the drivetrain.
It is unreasonable to boost the power by a large percentage, and expect the ride to last very long.
Even with sparring use of this system, the pressures on the whole system would be very high.

until I'm a rich man with lots of money for new engines, I'll stick to my 86 ponies, thanks.

[jessef]

until I'm a rich man with lots of money for new engines, I'll stick to my 86 ponies, thanks.

Ditto. I can't see a 20+% increase without something giving.

Jesse

[guamdoc]

Well your wrong and right at the same time friend, High exhaust gas temps are what kill diesels as well as carbon build up, and high engine operating temps, Alcohol injection eliminates all 3 of those, You can tow and keep low engine operating temps as well as significantly lower exhaust gas temperatures. Detonation is also something that cause alot of engine wear. Alcohol injection also eliminates this as well. And if you don't think the temps on that engine gets over 1250F your wrong, those turbos are undersized for the application and struggle to make power they get extra wear just because of this.

If you believe pulling a load with the engine maxed out is better than running cooler with more power and less effort all while 95% of your carbon is kept from building up in your motor, no black smoke and emissions reduced 70+ percent then this is not for you. Those of you that live at altitude are even in worse shape, every 1000ft you loose about a pound of boost so you have even less power and you engine has to work harder. Even in winter you can see some sever EGTs when pulling a load or taking a steep incline with a lot of weight in the vehicle.

Making your engine more efficient and burning 100% of it's fuel vs the 70% to 80% that diesels burn is also not going to shorten the life of your engine.


Your engine are not manufactured to handle just the power output they currently make. They are designed to handle a lot more than you think. 20% more power over stock if very noticeable in as far as performance gains, fuel economy and is well in the design specs of pretty much any vehicle.

You can pick how much power you want but simply using a nozzle size and mix that gets it were you want it. 10000's of people around the world are not running alcohol injection because it's shorting there engine life it's because it extends it and you get better performance from your vehicle as well. 60% more power is not for everyone but you tune a system to suit your needs. You have the power when you need it and you can turn off the system.

You can find alcohol injection on cars from 2000 dollars to 100,000 dollars because it works. Feel free to do your own research I would challenge anyone to find a report, post, or thread how there engine life was shortened by water injection. It's not like nitrous and this is not backyard mechanics.

And if you did not know it is widely used in marine applications even your own country uses it and has done research studies on it. I don't think they would spend 100,000 of dollars on something that was going to shorten the life of engines costing more than most peoples homes.

Like I said you can research it on your own but you can find studies like this from many goverments world wide and many states in the US, Conclusion is pretty much the same in all of them.

One from Canada
http://www.tc.gc.ca/TDC/publication/pdf ... 14272e.pdf

Sorry if this is long but one thing people need to be is informed and not mis-informed.

Benefits

More power at less throttle/ This is what is not taken into account when comments like adding power will hurt the vehicle.

If it takes you 35% throttle to maintain Xkph with the system off and with it on it take you 25% Throttle to maintain Xkph you are making more power at less engine effort but not beyond the engines capabilities Just something to think about when you put that answer forward.

Other things
Lower engine operating temps vs higher
Lower exhaust gas temps vs higher
Almost zero carbon build up vs carbon buildup
Zero detonation vs detonation

Which do you choose?

We have dyno tested a Delica they only make about 65hp your going off of factory hp ratings, which is power at the crank not what they put to the ground, you loose about 17% to 18% due to operate the drive-train loss. Just something to think about when you quote HP and specs.

[PcSpecialist]

I wonder why auto manufacturers are not using this if the benefits are so great. Seems to me like GM or Ford or Chrysler would be happy to have their engines produce more HP and last longer with something this easy to add on..
Just wonderin...

[BCDelica]

Guamdoc, would like to thank you for posting this information. With most diesels, past and present, in North America being high horsepower/torque monsters, fuel and air enhancements are normally only accepted by commercial operators.

Water-alcohol injection was well proven 20 years ago in Canadian university studies; but I sure wonder about the use of window washing fluid. (Some) Fatty acid can form acids in combustion gases that can be very corrosive to exhuast components. But with out doubt soaps can be made with so many materails; eg. many alkylphenols burn quite completely.

[guamdoc]

You must not use washer fluids that contain glycol, anything that states more than -30F or -34C will contain this, Washer fluid will not contain more than 49.9% methanol because it is illegal to ship it that way due to the fire hazard and size of the container at least in the states it is. Don't know your DOT rules there.

Also not window washing fluid, Windshield washing fluid big difference. If you put some windex in there your going to have some issues.

Now on windshield washer fluid the cheaper the better, If it states it's below -34C don't use it because it does contain glycol, if it states cleaning, de-greasing, antifreeze, anti-fog ect don't use it.

By the time the solution hits the combustion chambers it is pure steam and there is no build up the combustion process is just to violent a place for that. There is no corrosion in exhaust componets because the solution is burnt in the combustion process and passed as a gas.

You can only get corrosion through emmersion or soaking of item with alcohol injection. People who run it find 02 sensors no longer go bad and sprark plugs last pretty much for ever because they don't go bad due to detionation, high temps or excessive carbon build up.

Excessive carbon build up in cat-converters is what causes them to over heat and the honeycomb material inside to crumble. Keeping your vehicle burning 100% of the fuel and reducing emissions is how you keep your Cat lasting forever.


Another good test is the shake test for washer fluid, Shake it if it does not foam up on the top and does not state the above things you have yourself a winner.

Other sources of course are gas line antifreeze, again cheaper the better, comes in to kinds iso and methanol you want the methanol one. Windshield washer concentrate also 100% methanol, you can also run ethyl alcohol also known as Denatured which can be had at any paint store, Isopropyl works to but not as well for power.

You can also get methanol and denatured at a chemical supply store as well. In the states you can buy a 55 gallon drum for about 150USD.

Many sources you just have to find out what's the most convenient for you.

Not here to sell you a kit you can get one from any of the makers and there is about 3 other companies besides us that makes them on a large scale. Just trying to tell you the big benefits of it so no need to BS you guys. Once you put one in a turbo diesel you will be addited to the difference in how the vehicle drives.

If you watch that video of the starex on the dyno you can see what I mean about no smoke, That 2.5 liter engine is very similar in HP and design as the Delicia and the gains would be similar with alcohol injection.

[guamdoc]

I wonder why auto manufacturers are not using this if the benefits are so great. Seems to me like GM or Ford or Chrysler would be happy to have their engines produce more HP and last longer with something this easy to add on..
Just wonderin...

You would think so , something that reduces emissions by 70% heck you can get over 40+% emission reductions just using water in a diesel.

But some vehicles did actually have alcohol injection from the factory, If you ever see a buick grand national look at the instrument lights it has a activation light for water injection.

Here's one of our customers GNs , These were the second fastest factory produced vehicles of the 80's, The 89 Turbo Trans Am took the honors of being the fastest, same engine though. You won't hardley find a GN without it running aftermarket alcohol injection.




Sabb also had factory water injection in a few of it's cars. The Sabb 900 was one.
http://c900se.files.wordpress.com/2008/ ... ection.pdf

In the 60's and 70's if was very common to find this in big rigs as well but turbo tech and intercoolers lead to more powerful engines and it was just phased out.

[Erebus]

Like I said you can research it on your own but you can find studies like this from many goverments world wide and many states in the US, Conclusion is pretty much the same in all of them.

One from Canada
http://www.tc.gc.ca/TDC/publication/pdf ... 14272e.pdf

Granted, I haven't read the entire 39 page report, but the aim was to reduce NOx emissions, not to increase power.

the executive summary says:

On the engine operation side, the impact of the water is primarily to saturate the engine’s combustion air
supply as well as to lead to direct water droplet carryover into the cylinders. A noticeable effect was the
greater reduction of the exhaust gas temperatures of cylinders nearest the point of injection. This was
ascribed to the unequal distribution of the water along the length of the air manifold. Key considerations
are location, method of spray atomization, and water droplet distribution. The ship’s staff also expressed
concerns regarding engine operation and turbocharger surging during water injection. Injection timing
adjustments and turbocharger matching may need to be considered for permanent engine operation with
the WIS operating at high W/F ratios. Further testing and development of the WIS are required to realize
optimal emissions reduction potential and to determine the impact of water injection on fuel consumption
and engine operational performance as well as the impact of fuel quality on emissions.

So, the water isn't entirely atomized, there are performance problems. Also, water injection "effectively reduced NOx at the expense of an increase [emphasis added] in both particulate matter (PM) and carbon monoxide (CO)."

In other words, gain some, lose some.

Also, windshield washer fluid in this country usually has all kinds of additives, so I would be very hesitant to use it. (See Wikipedia article for more info on composition.)

[guamdoc]

Like I said you can research it on your own but you can find studies like this from many goverments world wide and many states in the US, Conclusion is pretty much the same in all of them.

One from Canada
http://www.tc.gc.ca/TDC/publication/pdf ... 14272e.pdf

Granted, I haven't read the entire 39 page report, but the aim was to reduce NOx emissions, not to increase power.

the executive summary says:

On the engine operation side, the impact of the water is primarily to saturate the engine’s combustion air
supply as well as to lead to direct water droplet carryover into the cylinders. A noticeable effect was the
greater reduction of the exhaust gas temperatures of cylinders nearest the point of injection. This was
ascribed to the unequal distribution of the water along the length of the air manifold. Key considerations
are location, method of spray atomization, and water droplet distribution. The ship’s staff also expressed
concerns regarding engine operation and turbocharger surging during water injection. Injection timing
adjustments and turbocharger matching may need to be considered for permanent engine operation with
the WIS operating at high W/F ratios. Further testing and development of the WIS are required to realize
optimal emissions reduction potential and to determine the impact of water injection on fuel consumption
and engine operational performance as well as the impact of fuel quality on emissions.

So, the water isn't entirely atomized, there are performance problems. Also, water injection "effectively reduced NOx at the expense of an increase [emphasis added] in both particulate matter (PM) and carbon monoxide (CO)."

In other words, gain some, lose some.

Also, windshield washer fluid in this country usually has all kinds of additives, so I would be very hesitant to use it. (See Wikipedia article for more info on composition.)

That article was only for the NOX emission reduction, Alcohol injection systems for vehicles water is completly atomozied and is steam before it ever hits the combustion chambers. The marine use your talking large volumes of water. On automotive use were talking small volumes from 63ml/min to 882ml/min not gallons per minute like used there. Big, big difference in atomization.

The difference in emission reduction with alcohol/water injection is the alcohol allows for a complete fuel burn to reduce emissions across the board. You will of course not get that with just water, Diesels are dirty plane and simple they waste up to 30% of there fuel. This is were the alcohol come in to play it causes a complete fuel burn making it more efficient like a gas engine in which most of them burn up to 98% of there fuel.

So know you know the difference in water injection vs water/alcohol injection and commercial vs automotive use. I'm not sure if you guys have MSDS sheets you can look up for the brands there but that's how we find the best to use.

C02 is a bi-product of incomple combustion N20 has a greenhouse gas effect 320 times that of CO2.

This goes alot more into adding alcohol to the mix. Long read

http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/air/PDFS ... lStudy.pdf

[EricN]

C02 is a bi-product of incomple combustion

Wrong. The higher the CO2, the more complete the combustion.