japanoid?!?

[guywithpajero]

Feeling stuck folks -

Had my head gasket replaced at Japanoid a couple of months back (water pump and timing belt as well) - cost me $4000. Ouch number one. Two days ago, my HG blew and today, Japanoid has taken the position that it was most likely the radiator and that they will not be honouring the HG warranty. The problem being that a mechanic (familiar with JDPs) looked at it on the day it blew and feels it was most likely the HG. I've spent the day reading forum after forum and it sounds like depending on what kind of stake you have in the outcome, the cause for catastrophic failure of this kind is one the the following:

- improper installation
- HG failure including shrinkage, bad seal, faulty item.
- cooling system failure including rad., air lock, cracks, cap, thermostat.

I'm stuck because I certainly won't pay them another $4000 to fix the same thing again?!? I feel they've taken a completely unreasonable position - one that completely absolves them of having to do anything. Its like if I took the position that they MUST have installed it improperly and therefore ought to fix everything at no charge?!? Isn't this the whole point of warranties?!?

What should I do? Who should I speak to? Should I get a lawyer? Anyone know who the boss is over there at Japanoid? Any help would be appreciated.

[joedelica]

Not a surprise at their reaction. Bought my first and last vehicle through them, as well as referred a
number of people. One who had his engine blow on his Sambar; won't go into details.
Bossmen over there are David and Shogo.
Wish you good luck with the outcome.

Joe

[deli1733]

Not surprising to hear this news come out of japanoid. Honestly with their prices and service i dont know how they're still in business. I'm no expert but i would have maybe cvi look at it for a second opinion and get a lawyer. It erks me that they treated me and continue to treat others this way. It also may be that your head was completely warped and needs to be replaced or machined, meaning it didnt have a chance to last in the first place. (if you blew the head gasket from overheating). I feel for you and wish i was rich and could give you money... but im broke.

[thedjjack]

What was done for the $4000.00?

Not sure how the radiator was not serviced with the cylinder head..... Hard to comment without seeing what was done and what happened and why the head gasket went in the first place.

Plus driving habits can be hard on the head gaskets due to expansion rates and compression on diesel motors with aluminum heads.

What was done for the $4000.00? That to me is like full rebuild money?

[guywithpajero]

as far as what was done for $4000 - they did water pump, timing belt, head gasket, new fluids and changed a tire. (Yes, it seemed expensive to me too, but I thought a top shop demands top rates) FYI I read someone else's comments and apparently Japanoid does not replace rad when they do a HG. (Apparently other places do?!) The mechanic told me today that because he can now look into the rad through the hole that was once the rad cap, he can see rust and therefore it must be a failed rad. Are you telling me that we have sent men to the moon but we are unable to determine the condition of a radiator without blowing a hole in it?!? As far as driving habits, I literally drive from Gibsons to downtown a couple times a week (if one looks at a map, one would discover that 50% of that trip is on a ferry. Which is what I was on, five minutes before my engine exploded a couple of day ago?!?)

I'm starting to bitch and I don't want to do that - I just want to know if in fact one can peek into a busted rad and determine 100% that it was the cause of a blown head gasket? If so, how? What will he (and I when shown) be looking at?

[jessef]

I just want to know if in fact one can peek into a busted rad and determine 100% that it was the cause of a blown head gasket? If so, how? What will he (and I when shown) be looking at?

The only way to determine 100% if a rad single handedly caused a head gasket failure is if the cooling passageway was completely blocked.

Do a pressure test and if it's okay than you should look elsewhere. Most likely the block and head face to see if they had the head machined prior to putting it back on.

If the radiator is 100% plugged, then recourse you have may be if they did the service based on their recommendations/your authorization but they did not recommend to replace the radiator at that time.

If the radiator is 'okay', then you have every means to go after them. You're not talking a few hundred. You're talking a few thousand. Based solely on what you said, you can take them to small claims court.

That is exactly what I would do. Along with the recommendation of others. Take it to CVI as they know that engine, literally, inside and out and can give you the best advice possible.

[Super Exceeded]

I can't speak for Japanoids service, but having just changed my HG and all belts. I can tell you parts and head check (@Lordco) came to about $600.

[FalcoColumbarius]

Take your Paj to CVI (604-247 0500). They are located on Shell Road in Richmond, north of Bridgeport. They will completely rebuild your engine for less than $4,000. I am so sorry that you have had this experience. The owner of CVI also runs a facility in the Philippines that deals with Mitsubishi (ATI Diesel).

I originally started having work done at Japanoid until I was quoted $1,000 for four shocks, which quite frankly I found shocking.
They informed me that my forward stabilizer links needed replacing and I agreed to it without batting an eye. Later, whilst driving the east Lillooet road I heard a rather loud TUNG!, shortly followed by another TUNG!. After this, as I struggled to regain control of my wagon and avoid flying into the lake, I could hear a rattling that was drowning out the sound of the FSR, . This turned out to be the stabilizer bouncing up and down on the lower skid pan. I got a hold of a pair of stab-links from another parts Delica and to my surprise the Delica stab-links were twice the size of the two sheared stab-links that I pulled out of my wagon.

Since I have been dealing with CVI. I have discovered very honest men. They are not into gouging, they charge a reasonable price for good work. There are not a lot of these people in business, it appears ~ good people to know.

On Vancouver Island there is another quality shop in Coombs called CC Autos.

Falco.

[Modsqwad]

Did Japanoid "recommend" that the rad be changed when the head gasket was done? If not they certainly bear the brunt of the blame for a failure due to the rad's inability to cool the engine. Go back at them again.
Andy

[thedjjack]

Again $4,000 please tell me they did more.

The hill off the Ferry into Gibsons is not friendly in my mind for the cold diesel and step climb (I drive very slow when I go to sunshine coast when I get off the boat).

For $4,000 I would hope that the entire cooling system was gone over. They could do the job again and still make a profit in my opinion.

[pajerry]

Did they mention at any point before or during the work that there may be something up with your cooling system and that it should be thoroughly inspected if not replaced?

If they didn't, call your lawyer lol. IMHO that is completely misleading and they should have covered all bases.. especially for 4k.. did they overhaul the tranny too? (edit this was said 3 times already, I was in your other thread that you should delete)


But in all seriousness, this is why I stopped going there a year and a half ago immediately after picking up the vehicle from them.. While getting a squealing noise checking out I asked specifically to call me and let me know if you found the problem and how much $$ first, and they went ahead and do work before consulting with me. I even asked David (they white guy?) to write it on the work order since I know how shops can be, and still I pick up the truck with a 180 dollar bill for something I didn't need. Meanwhile they were crapping me because they couldn't even describe what they fixed or why it happened. They just said, 'its the turbo'. And then blamed the oil seep and spit from the half moon seal on the turbo, and suggest I rebuild... I shook my head and walked out. I've been doing all the service myself since.

It still makes the stupid little woooing to this day, only when damp, only on very light throttle

However, they do have my parts twin which I'm sure will come in handy at some time.


I third taking it to CVI. I've been there once for a Deli tune, and since then every time I go back to get work done, they just tell or practically show me how to do it myself, then send me away with a big grin!

(or they're just too good for me :( )

[guywithpajero]

Thanks for all the replies.

Firstly, to answer what seems to be the most common comment here and elsewhere is, did they suggest a rad change? The answer is, no. I had the pajero towed there with instructions to get it "road worthy." After a couple of days of research and talking with people, changing the rad in situations like mine, seems like a common industry given. Why Japanoid does not/did not is anybody's guess? That decision sounds negligible but what is bothering me the most is that they have taken a superficial look at a catastrophic failure and blamed the one component of that system they didn't work on, which conveniently allows them to disregard a warranty -t to me, that sounds like something even worse than negligible. Again, if anyone out there thinks differently, please feel free to offer your experience - can you look at an engine with a blown head gasket, the top of the rad blown off and evidence of extreme pressure all over the damn place and say that it was the rad that failed thus causing the HG to fail or vice versa? And if not, do you think they should honour the warranty?

Unless someone in management steps up and works with me, I will definitely be taking my future business to CVI as so many of you have recommended them - thank you, again. Of course, I will keep everyone up-to-date as I attempt to sort things out with Japanoid - really the only person I've spoken to is the mechanic who did the original work and he is biased as he has a stake in the diagnosis. Who knows how management chooses to handle the situation? I've sent an email (day before last) asking that they reconsider their position and honour their warranty and I'm now waiting for an answer. It's still my hope to be able to post that Japanoid worked with me and were reasonable and that my pajero is going camping this summer! Either way, I think its important that I keep you all informed because many of you may be using them presently or are thinking about using them in the future and rather than following a blanket recommendation from your neighbour or listening to a two second rant about how they ripped your cousin off, I hope I can offer factual, week-to-week updates AND if I end up issuing a 'letter of intent' (small claims court) I can let everyone know how hard or easy it is to do so. Who knows, might be useful or interesting.

Again, thanks for the comments/suggestions.

[guywithpajero]

OK -

After four or five back and forth emails I am happy to say that Japanoid (Shogo) has decided to honour its warranty. I would say the key for myself was avoiding heated discussions by requesting that all correspondence be done via email so that words are chosen carefully and there is a record of communication if it ever gets to small claims court. Shogo was as reasonable and willing to work towards an amicable solution. Having said that, I don't think I should have been made to fight for something that was clearly mine in the first place, but . . . hey, at the end of the day, it looks like the head will either be machined or replaced at no cost to me and that they will install a new radiator at full price.

Thanks to all those who chirped in, its important to share these experiences with one another as it keeps them honest (you know they read these posts, too). Its important also to give credit where credit is due and I hope I have done so by following up with the resolution.

thanks.

[jessef]

A happy ending

[guywithpajero]

Well, I don't have my pajero back yet so . . . I will say that I am cautiously optimistic. Thanks for your original post - very helpful.