Off Road GPS

[Jonesy M Delica]

We are sifting thru new GPS units for sale & there are many designed for those folks who want traffic, alt routes & hwy travel around the world - we want a solid GPS-w/topograhy, that tracks our previous movements so we can find our way out of the wilderness(without having to carve a new road). I know there are some good "handhelds" -but any suggestions? and looking for a good basic unit to assist in our exploring the great outdoors- many thanks

[Paule]

At the risk of letting the world into my forested hideaways....

I've got a regular (250W) Garmin car GPS and the Backroads Mapbook SD card for it. Does the job.


pe

[CloudMountain]

Ive had a Garmin hand held for years now and it works fine. Lets you load topo maps for various areas. Was very handy on a Columbia River trip to find fresh water from streams.
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_deta ... 4302888938

[TardisDeli]

Hi Jonesy's (hey we still must get together soon),

I totally dislike GPS, consider them a hazard for off-road use. I do search and rescue, and the victims NEVER know exactly where they are with GPS and can't give any landmarks since they apparently drove blindfolded wherever the GPS said to. Victims only know Where they left from, they know What time they left, but they don't know what their actual Speed was, and didnt memorize landmarks, so can't calculate where they ARE. Yes, I do know how to use GPS, taught it to search and rescue volunteers.

While on Delica group treks I hear MANY discussions amongst the delica drivers as to where we ACTUALLY ARE ... hey my gps says we're here ... no you're wrong becuz mine says we're here and mine cost more than yours ... no no says the next driver since I have the newest GPS ooops it says we are in the middle of nothing. Hmmmm. GPS only tells you where you are, not how BEST to get out of wherever you got to, and WORSE it encourages drivers to continue on a bad road when they really ought to listen to the voice from inside their head saying hmmm this road is getting bad hmmm its really only an abandoned logging track from 30 years ago, instead they follow the SEDUCTIVE voice from the GPS.

Having seen various gps in various cars on Delica group trips .... I looked at everyone's to see if there is one I would get (does it show me exactly where we are now, with enuf detail to backtrack) but they all have poor info on the back roads. The gps companies dont do Updates on back roads maps (there is no commercial market to pay for the surveys).

A sense of distance and proportion is lost to us when using a gps screen, so you lose sense of how far you've gone or long it is taking you to travel that road, versus a paper map where you are turning pages (if we travel 1 hour per page, and I know my average speed on a flat gravel road is 25kmh, we will not get to the place we want to camp before dark so we need to change plans now). On gps suddenly you realize its getting dark and you still havent found a good camp spot. gps back roads usually only show ONE single road, so drivers think Jolly Good there is only one road showing so my decision is easy ...obviously we just keep driving this road. But this single road is barely related to the elevation contours and gives no other location info (creeks etc rarely show), so you can't actually decide if that jiggle in the single line is the jiggle where you crossed the creek or the jiggle where the road went beside the cliff edge, it is harder to estimate your actual driving time as the screen always shows you in the middle of the screen.

The ONLY good map is by BC Backroads Company, www.backroadmapbooks.com, either digital version you can download to your laptop, or paper. Their website has online updates so you can update their digital version or update your paper mapbooks with pencil (this is the mapbook that we all carry). But find which gps type they link with. I prefer their paper book as I can carry it should I need to walk out of a bad situation, and it is nice and cosy to lie down to read and plan future trips. And the real proof ... when we're all sitting by the campfire planning where to go tomorrow, do we pull out the gps to plan with, nope we pass around the paper book.

If you prefer free paper map, log onto Govt Canada topo maps, you can download and zoom but I find they lack the informative local details on the Backroads map (ie hot springs, abandoned quarry, good fishing, camping spots, canoe spots).

Why do I hate GPS? GPS map data is inaccurate, it is taken from surveys done on PAPER with usually 1987 data (official BC survey), using latitude longitude fixes taken from sun or stars sightings co-ordinated with their wristwatch by surveyors in the middle of no-where (plus add in their boredom on the survey mission). Then that data is overlaid into a gps coordinate of today (hey every earthquake and volano eruption moves the earth rotation a bit). Govt today has many problems with land and water usage licenses that have been in use from decades ago, now that everyone has gps they find their actual license site is not exactly where they thought they were (ie a river use license is not on the river, or a tree farm on stony cliff not in the verdant valley).

If you insist on GPS, theres an app for that. Jay of the TardisDeli loves gps (but it is my paper charts and my landmark notation as we drive that solves where we TRULY are). His iphone3 app is TomTom, which gives as good info on backroads as any of the others. (By the way, Amazingly, for our boat charts he bought Navionics for $200 plus dollars (in addition to hundreds dollars for the actual gps unit), but his iphone3 NaVIONIC marine chart app costs $9.99 and we have often compared the 2 systems while boating, and find them identical in the data and accuracy). So iphone gps seems to be just as accurate as a dedicated gps, and might be cheaper if you already have the iphone (beware gps gobbles battery power).

Remember, GPS cannot work with a dense trees nor when you're in a steep valley. The satellites don't just track you the instant they are overhead, they need the curvature of the earth while they orbit towards and away from you to calculate distance and speed and location. So you may lose satellite tracking while driving and no realize this (if the line is dotted it means no data the machine is just GUESSING oops, no the dotted line does NOT mean you're on a back road).

GPS has its use, like trying to find the nearest cafe with wi-fi. But its only a cheap electronic device, outdated as soon as you buy it. Beware electrical spikes, beware rain, beware your full coffee cup nearby, keep metal away from the gps antenna (oooh you're driving a metal vehicle oops). I easily confused Jay's boat gps by putting my metal teacup too close to the gps antenna on the dashboard -- that took a while to figure out but fortunately we were in an area we know well.

Worried about retracing your steps, keep a pencil beside your mapbook and make notes (or notepaper the same size as map book, draw the road on the map, and scribble your notes on that paper. My books have notes about camp spots for future use, good picnic spots with views, notes comparing my odometer reading with the mileage on the map (usually done once or twice per day or per map to ensure that map and my odo agree, each odo is off by 2 or 3 mph depending on tire size etc). Take digital camera photos of road junctions so you can confirm later that it was the same junction; photo distinctive trees or bridges etc BESIDE the road (not up high since you can't see those high tree tops in the dark with the vehicle headlights), write the photo time and odo reading on map/ notepaper so you can calculate later how long it should take you to return to that spot, then if your timing later seems weird (hey shouldnt we have crossed that orange wooden bridge by now) you can make a rough estimate.

Get a good accurate paper map and become VERY familiar with it. BackRoad MapBooks, version 2 for lower mainland $25ish : Presidents Choice superstore sell maps 15% off, possibly Jimmy Pattison's other stores do the same (hey nice guy, he lends his chopper for search & rescue), or MEC for about $5 off. To know exactly where you are when backtracking (because you were NAUGHTY and didnt keep your finger moving along the paper map while travelling) get a cheap accurate watch with a minute and second hand (so you know how long you've been travelling), get a cheap accurate compass so you go in the correct direction (cheap is good becuz you will keep it on you, as opposed to keping it in its protective box cuz it was expensive), and TRUST YOUR MAP. I will gladly teach you paper maps.

Cheers, Christine the Opinionated.

PS: People who are lost often assume compass is wrong, and just wander in whatever direction their brain tells to go. I would assume the same is true with GPS. The compass ignoring was proven by a USA search and rescue volunteer group who did not believe that they would be a stupid as their victims had been, but when the volunteers were sent out alone with their full rescue gear including compass and map, they each assumed their compass was wrong (oooh it must be magnetic interferance etc). hmmm.

[Yokohama]

The ability to use a real map is essential; I like the "Motor Carriers Road Atlas" that you can get at places like truck stops. Very, very detailed.
Of course, this is about off-road GPS, so that is different.

[FalcoColumbarius]

Backroads GPS map / Garmin released

Typically with maps of any type ~ one season and the map is potentially out of date. Travelling up north once with a relatively new backroads map book, I chose to follow the thick black line (forest main), which in reality turned out to be a dotted grey line (Path). In my experience, although I do refer to roads on maps (I don't depend on them as they change so much), I refer to them in conjunction with water ways as they tend to be more reliable.

I use Topo Maps with Garmin PC Mobile on my laptop and keep map books as back up, along with a transit compass that I keep on my person.

Falco.

P.S.: The Alleged Forest Main:


.........................................................Ummmm... I'm not going to get out of the Delica just now.

[jessef]

To sum it all up in a nutshell :

Use GPS as a secondary broad guide
Use latest FSR / backroad maps as a specific route guide
Use your judgment in the past/present and future directions/headings

Solely relying on only one of the above may potentially be hazardous.

[Jonesy M Delica]

Good insight & much appreciated ! Mrs agrees with Tardisdeli - but they're both named Christine -imagine! So I will promise follow the mapbook closely -while Im not watching our new Garmin with the SD card - as I think that will allow for the best of BOTH worlds...next I will run 4 office - lets all try to make to Deli meet in Maple Ridge Apr 17 - perhaps we can discuss further? (I wont buy anything before then!)

[almac]

i use a garmin 60csx with canadian TOPO maps.


it works ok, but is not perfect. which is why i also take my cammenga.

[NorthernOntario]

I use a Magellan "Crossover" GPS.

It does roads, off roads, and marine as long as you have purchased the right maps.

It has its ups and down like any device.

I can litterally plug it in drive on the road / hwy where i need to go.

I can than switch it over to a different function and use topo maps to track my hiking. and get be cak to my vehicle or for offroading use.

allows me to enter wayoints. shows roads rivers, train tacks,

I can even get maps jump in my boat and get depths of lakes and mark spots on the water.

All around its a good unit.

As stated by others this device is not to be depended on without other tools and common sense. But i never regretted my purchase.

I personally find them more useful in large cities than i do in the bush.

Hope this helps