Gauges not working

[LCTofino]

Hello,
Hoping someone may be able to shed some light on a problem I've had recently w/my 93 Delica. First time I noticed it I had been camping in the high desert for 4 days without starting it. When I finally drove out both my fuel and RPM gauges were non-responsive. Fuel gauge showed empty even though tank was full and RPM gauge didn't move. At first I thought it might be a fuse, but both gauges kicked in after driving about 5 minutes or so. Still in a hot climate and now it's happening sporadically. Today the fuel gauge worked but the RPM didn't for a whole hour. Then it did, the next time drove it.
Any ideas? Could this be symptomatic of a larger issue? Seems to be running fine otherwise.
Thanks for any help you can offer.
Best,
L

[thedjjack]

could be the ignition switch starting to go...does the heater fan work when the gauges go out? Next time it is out try giggling the ignition keys....

"if you cannot fix it with a hammer, it is an electrical problem"

sounds like you sir, have an electrical problem

[nxski]

try giggling the ignition keys....

I don't know that an electrical problem is really that funny

Good luck with your problem solving LCTofino...

[LCTofino]

Please excuse my ignorance, but if it is an electrical problem. Is is difficult and/or expensive to fix. I'm still traveling (on a tight budget) and don't know any mechanics personally here.
Thanks,
L

[TardisDeli]

No, have not heard anyone with this problem, and Jay and I see most electrical issures (owners come to him for electrical help, or come to the Deli meets we organize). We have seen several delii that have been to hot Calif-mexico or interior BC with no issues.

So, to troubleshoot. 3 main causes spark to my mind.
One Cause: related to long time parking (ie you mention 4 days) is that your battery is being drained, usual culprits are defective battery (yes even brand new batteries have cheaply made metal plates) or things such as stereo, gps, alarms all constantly drain power to maintain their memory. You would notice this as a problem to start (unless the symptom is masked because you have dual battery starting system with isolator switch). Try doing a Load Test of battery at night, then again next morning before starting anything, see if anything different (might be hard to tell if drain takes several days).

Two Cause: temperature fluctuations (heat expands vs cold contracts metal) which could mean metal contacts not very good. But, not usually an issue as several yukoners and Calgarists have stayed with us, and never reported bi-metal non-contact issues. You could remove JUST the INSTRUMENT PANEL (NOT the entire dashboard --- please ignore the word dashboard where I use it, you only need the part in front of you, nbot the entire dashbaord (carefully,it is not difficult just tricky to find the screws but someone yesterday or so someone posted how to undo the few screws) and replace the connectors, sometimes they get a bit dull or corroded over time (just buffing them with a bit of steel wool or a nail file or fine sandpaper or a bit of tightly crumpled aluminum foil is enuf to scuff them so you get bright shiny connector spades). If it is just these 2 guages, then I would suspect something loose in the dashboard, are you sure nothing else is wrong (see my next paragraph) if its just these 2 then drive slowly and listen to your engine so you don't overrev.

Three Cause: alternator starting to die. Yup, true, the Delica is designed to alert you to a dying alternator by having the warning lights on your dashboard (aka Idiot Lights) glow / pulse on and off to alert you (help help me the are crying) and it is very spooky when you see it happening at night, all dash lights glow on then fade off over several seconds, even though your mind says well the car is running and sounds OK so I will ignore it. This is difficult to prove, as a battery load test does not always show it until after you cannot get it started. Car systems do not charge your battery above 80 percent full change for safety reasons. If you keep a battery maintainer / charger on the delica while parked as I do so I can keep a portble heater running inside to keep my camping gear dry, then you would not notice the alternator dying and the charger is topping up the batteries instead of the alternator doiing tis job chrging them. You can survive for weeks without an alternator if you plug into a battery charger every time you stop, and don't drive with accesories on (so you can only run in daytime, take the fuses out of your headllights if they automatically come on in day) dont' have stereo or wipers on, definitely no fan or heater on.

So, think carefully about any other little problems which might give a clue as to what is happening.

Have you installed any new guages or wires, which you might have tapped into these wires for power. Did you add a pyro or fuel heater? Remember if you add a new thing, consider wiring a new FUSED line from battery. Alarm installs are a common problem, you pay some kid $10 hour and he splices into a line.

Are your headlights good and bright? Have you done any mods, added any new lights, using too powerful bulb. Where you normally park at night, turn the lights on without engine and note how bright they are, then try again hours later while still dark, if lights are dimmer then you have battery drain.

Any other weird little thing (ie only when you also run the new MP3 player while the Air Con is on). Let us know. I can PM you our phone number. But I need a bit more info.

Only once you can make the problem occur (Replicate) then you can solve it.

Cheers, Christine.

[TardisDeli]

EDIT: We're all here to help. don't panic. sounds like just a minor electrical thing that you can fix. I am continually checking this posting until you are sorted out, so relax. I sent you a PM with our phone numbers.

Another thought, since they are both fuel related, is the engine running OK (no coughing or rough running due to bits of crud in the fuel?). I dont think this is the issue, sounds both electrical.

Edit, Jay has now read this posting, and he says it sounds like my Number 2 thing, so you need to remove dashboard, but he warns it is a huge mess of wires back there. I say just look at the back of the 2 guages that are the problem as they are easy to s and feel, and just check those 2 connectors are on tightly. Oh, lower the steering wheel first so you have room. And try to do this in the parking lot of a parts chain store that has mechanics bays or something, so in worst case they can help you.

To remove the dashboard: I copied from the Posting "Fixing the dash clear plastic... help". from Snelson: "There's the one in the brake fluid reservoir, there's obvious ones right in the front of the dash, then you have one in behind the hazard switch. If you gently wedge a knife or screw driver behind the switch plate the whole switch pops out and there's a screw or bolt there you can remove." As I recall, the cover is in pieces which are friction fitted, so just gently jiggle once the screws are undone.

We don't think its a fuse, you would have more problems than just 2 guages, so we both agree (so rare) that its the connectors to just thses two guages. Also, follow the wires back from these 2 guages with your fingers, check that no nicks in the wires that happen where the wire touches metal car frame. If so just tape over them (electrical tape is best, just 2 or 3 wraps is good, just to prevent the bare wire "grounding" on the metal car frame).

EDIT: I have read your other posts to get more info about your delica, is this the same one you had posted for sale? Is the battery set up the same as from Japanoid, if so you won't have an isolator switch to isolate the batteries (ie first battery is solely for starting and is isolated from the second battery which is set up for House use such as reading lights at night; this protects you from not starting in the morning after falling asleep with your reading lights on).
Have you changed the batteries recently, or added anything else. Has anyone added another guage such as pyro or boost, or opened up the dashboard if so they could have kinked a wire when re-assembling dash board.

Christine.

[TardisDeli]

Instrument panel removal step by step with photos is found at : Dashboard removal (speedo dials) Photo guide

Found under: Delica Canada » Board index » Delica Canada Technical » FAQ and Downloads » Delica FAQ Section
created by Mystery Machine in 2007. I tried to cut and paste, but only the text came. His photos are great, he had added in arrows to highlight where the screws are.

QUOTE:
To remove the main speedo dials, follow these step by step photos
This is useful if you need to change any of the bulbs on the speedo dials.

Image
Undo the two crosshead screws with a short (stubby) screwdriver.

Image
Remove the brake reservoir cover on the end of the dashboard and undo the screw inside. Also remove the 'knob' on the end of the vent lever.

Image
Using a thin flat blade screwdriver, lever out the Hazard Light/Rear Wiper switch panel. Remove the two switches from the wiring loom then remove the screw hidden beind. You can now remove the dashboard surround.

Image
Undo the four screws on the instrument binnacle and pull the binnacle forward carefully.

Image
From behind the binnacle (space is limited!), you'll see four wiring connectors and the speedo cable. Carefully unplug the connectors and unclip the speedo cable. The binacle is now free and can be removed for changing the bulbs.

Image
Simply pull the whole speedo assembly up and over the steering wheel and there you have it.....(you may have to put the steering wheel on the lowest height setting for this)

Refitting is the reverse of the above - just be careful when putting the plugs back on!
END

[TardisDeli]

Hello L, worried whether you are OK, havent heard back from you. I see you have logged in since I posted all my troubleshooting suggestions, I hope some of our info was helpful? I pm'd you our phone numbers, please feel free to contact us. Regards, Christine and Jay.

[LCTofino]

Jay and Christine,
Thanks so much for all of your helpful advice - not being very mechanically inclined myself, I ended up taking it to an electrical specialist here and there was a bad connection that he re-sodered to the circuit board - seems to be fine now.
Thanks again,

[thedjjack]

Now that everything is good...where are the trip photos?

Some members are suffering in the greyest - wettest - coldest spring ever. I need Delica in the warm sun photos!

[LCTofino]

I'll see what I can do - not missing that Vancouver weather ;)

[horsehead]

what was the cost of the repair? i have no gas or water temp. gauge.

[LCTofino]

It was an electrical problem. I took it to an electrical expert. $60

[R.Costa]

Horsehead, My fuel and temp gauges didn't work either, I started with the temp gauge and found the thermostat to be causing the engine to run too cool for the gauge to register. I changed the thermostat and the gauge started working. As for the fuel gauge, I think I have isolated it to the fuel level sender resistor but I am still sorting that out. I recommend getting a Mitsubishi service manual for your van. There are several on ebay right now for the 1988 model vanwagon. I did and it is a great help.