Turbo help

[joebillhill]

So I've noticed that I don't hear my turbo anymore and am getting some smoke under load.
I took the intake off the turbo and checked the play of the turbine and it has a little bit but didn't seem too bad, it rotates well enough too (subjective terms as I'm not a mechanic)
I began to think then that maybe it was a vacuum leak not allowing me to get proper boost so I replaced the lines going from the IP to turbo and turbo to waste gate along with the EGR banking hose and the one that goes right in front of the timing belt.
Firing it up it smokes more now. When idling it's puffing out a little bit of blue smoke and pushing the throttle down it's billowing what looks like grey smoke.
I put everything back together and the old hoses where they were and it's still doing it.
I don't think I altered anything in my tinkering but can anyone think of what's going on?

[joebillhill]

Is there a way to test the turbo with it on the van? If I took the intake tube off and ran it should it spin when the pedal is applied? Or is this a no no?

[Growlerbearnz]

You could do that, it should spin when revved and shouldn't cause any harm, but be aware that a turbo with bad bearings will usually spin just fine at low load, it's under high load where the bearings can't keep up. The best way is to fit a boost gauge into the line that goes to the injection pump. That way you know exactly how much boost you're making (or not).

Blue and grey smoke are generally not good. They imply engine oil being burnt or incomplete combustion. If the engine oil is coming from your turbo you run the risk of engine runaway- when the engine runs on its own oil and cannot be turned off. Engine runaway is almost as exciting as it is expensive. I'd remove the inlet manifold/EGR stub and see how much oil is inside your intake manifold and turbo outlet. Compare to the amount of oil in your ribbed rubber intake pipe. If there's way more oil in the inlet manifold then it's coming from the turbo. If the rubber intake pipe seems more oily, it's coming from the rocker cover breather and is fairly normal.

Just a couple of things to check before you pull the turbo: is the injection pump diaphragm still good? Suck on the line that goes to the IP and see if it holds a vacuum. Is the wastegate actuator holding the wastegate closed like it should? Check that you can open the wastegate by pulling down on the actuator rod, and that it closes with a nice solid "click".

Unfortunately I think your diagnosis is correct- dodgy turbo.

[joebillhill]

Thanks for the reply growlerbearnz.
I pulled the egr stub and it looks ok in there. No excessive amounts of oil on either side. I'll check the ip next along with the actuator. Do you really just pull down on the rod? I'm hesitant as I sometimes have a knack for not having a "mechanics feel" when applying pressure to things...

[Growlerbearnz]

LOL yes, you just pull down on the rod from underneath the vehicle. It's on a very strong spring and there's not much to hold, so I almost have to swing off it before it moves. At the risk of invoking Murphy's law: you can't break it. It only moves about half an inch, but you should be able to feel the spring tension trying to close the wastegate.

[Growlerbearnz]

I just re-read your post, you seem a little unsure about the vacuum hoses:

Two outlet stubs on the front of the turbo, one goes to the wastegate actuator, the other goes to the top of the IP.

The hose that goes in front of the timing belt is a vacuum hose from the back of the alternator, and goes to a vacuum solenoid on the side of the engine bay near the battery box, then to the idle speed controller on the side of the IP near the accelerator cable. The vacuum hose also feeds the EGR solenoids, but I don't recall exactly how those are plumbed.

[joebillhill]

Once again, thanks Growlerbearnz,
Your vacuum hose in front of the timing belt continues on down to the back of the alternator? Or does it run into the hard piping that runs along the top of the valve cover that also has a T to the alternator?
I thought "small weak hands" and was able to move the actuator rod without catastrophe. It has about an inch of play but it also rests very low making me think that it's been adjusted or somehow rattled down to, at rest, keep the wastegate open.
I guess I'm going to shorten the actuator so it has the wastegate closed at rest. Seems weird if it somehow rattled out of adjustment but also if the previous owner adjusted it to zero boost.

[joebillhill]

I'm losing my mind on this!
I shortened the actuator length to have the wastegate closed when there's no boost in the system.
Hooked up a boost gauge
Fired it up and no boost under throttle
I even just took the compressor side hard plastic tube to get a look at the fins and they spin when the engine is running.
Can I have that big of a leak somewhere that I'm not getting boost? It also doesn't really sound like I have a leak but again I don't have a mechanics ear.

[ChuckBlack]

No boost at idle or in park or neutral is normal, only under a load. Should be up to 9psi or more. Perhaps your piston seals are worn out. Blue smoke indicated oil burning. Grey usually means improper timing or poor injection or bad compression. I would disconnect the IP and run a compression test. Simple and pretty easy. How is your air filter by the way? have you been adding some injector cleaning solutions such as cetane booster or have you ever added some 2 stoke oil to your diesel tanks...(Today's diesel lubricity is much lower than 25Y diesel causing the IP to suffer. Adding lubricity such as 2 stroke oil will give your IP 3x its life cycle.)

[joebillhill]

Ah that's right, it would only build boost under load.
My seals very well could be worn a little with the kms it's got but the fact that all this smoke has shown up very recently after a little bit of tinkering with the vacuum lines and thermostat before that makes me wonder if it's something small that I altered.
It's got a new air filter and I put some Lucas injector cleaner in 1000km ago
I also add fuel additive every tank.
Is there a procedure listed in the shop manuals for a compression test or on the forum here?

[Growlerbearnz]

Your wastegate actuator rod shouldn't have an inch of play. It shouldn't really be possible to even *get* an inch of play. The actuator arm should be about horizontal or slightly below when closed (attached a picture of the actuator arm when closed on my Delica). It sounds a bit like your wastegate flap or internal lever might have broken off- that would prevent you from making boost.

20160408_165249.jpg (75.79 KiB) Viewed 5221 times

Timing belt vacuum line: yes, mine used to go to the steel pipes atop the rocker cover, and then to the back of the alternator. (I don't have the steel lines any more.)

[joebillhill]

Interesting.
I guess I should clarify that the actuator and rod was detached from the turbo housing when I was pulling on it. Is it still not possible to get that much play?
I was hoping to not have to take the turbo off but so be it. It's time to get a reseal kit for it anyways. Might quell some of the blue smoke

[Growlerbearnz]

Ah, my mistake, "play" implies uncontrolled movement or slop, but you're saying that when pulling on the rod against the spring you could move it about an inch. That's normal.

Here's a couple of videos which show how the wastegate works and how to set it up:

How the internal wastegate works (watch up to 30 second mark. The rest is just the guy whingeing): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-cNZWworNo . Boost pressure pushes on the actuator, which opens the flap, allowing exhaust to bypass the turbine and limiting boost pressure. Our wastegate flap is a lot less visible inside, but works the same way. I suspect your flap may have fallen off or may not be closing all the way.

An example of setting wastegate actuator rod preload. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p12g1PpIcjE Note how when at rest the wastegate actuator rod is pulling on the wastegate lever arm to hold it closed. Our actuator rod preload is not set by number of turns, it's by length of the rod like so:

IMG_03371_zpsxoua6vuf.jpg (522.44 KiB) Viewed 5207 times

Time to remove the turbo though. Fingers crossed a rebuild kit is enough, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[ChuckBlack]

hey when you removed your waste gate actuator, did you manually moved the waste gate on the turbo? Did it move? Do you have a puddle of oil in your intake pipe off the air filter housing? Does your RA cover breather tube clogged of disconnected? Meanwhile i yanked on my waste gate tonight for some yanking fun and all good, everything works like it should. I pressured and vacuum tested and all in OEM Specs! In my case, I do have worn out seals in my turbo as I'm getting oil on my compressor side... :shocking news! Oh well... Next service I'll R&R the seals!!! But otherwise my boost is up to 9Psi with normal wear and tear...

[Growlerbearnz]

Hey Chuck- don't be surprised if replacing your turbo seals doesn't do much for the oil problem, these engines tend to throw a lot of oil out the rocker cover breather too. In my case a brand new turbo only helped a little. An oil separator in the breather pipe, though, now that cleaned it up a *lot*.